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NC-2 vs NC-5 vs NC-6

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  • NC-2 vs NC-5 vs NC-6

    We had an interesting opportunity last night to run NC-2's against NC-5's and NC-6's, head-to-head, on a track (Scaley Sport) with a 42-foot straight. First, I ran the NC-2 car (M3 GTR with ProRace red gears) against a NC-5 powered Megane. Lap after lap, dead even down the 42-foot straight, end to end. Acceleration was identical, top end was identical, and no car pulled ahead of the other in the middle when one car 'ran out of gear'.

    Just for fun, I put the NSX Tuner car with the NC-6 against the same NC-5 Megane. Lap after lap, dead even down the 42-foot straight, end to end.

    When I say dead even, the front of one car is never more than 2 inches ahead of the other's front -- it was that close, over and over and over.

    Are these motors really that different?

  • #2
    Interesting results ElS,
    but try all three motors in the same car...(IMHO) that's the only way of getting an accurate result. Anything's possible, but there's over 5,000 rpm difference between the 2 and the 6.
    The weight, aerodynamics and gearing of these three different cars had to be the difference.

    All figures at 14.8V:
    NC-2 18,100 rpm 263 g/cm of torque
    NC-5 20,000 rpm 290 g/cm of torque
    NC-6 23,500 rpm 350 g/cm of torque


    Think Red!
    Bob/NINCO1

    Bob/NINCO1

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    • #3
      Do you know at what rpm the torque reading were taken? Or better yet, is there a torque vs rpm curve for the Ninco motors?

      Thank you for your time,
      Fong

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      • #4
        Fong242,
        The RPM & torque figures published by NINCO are based on an applied 14.8V with a 9 tooth pinion on the motor shaft. I do not have any additional testing information.
        I'm not a mechanical engineer, but it is certainly possible that at lower voltages, the torque curves and actual performance figures may be similar.

        Think Red!
        Bob/NINCO1

        Bob/NINCO1

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        • #5
          well, if you couldn't see or get different performance from these three, you must be in the Twilight Zone

          NC-2: fine, no-mag under 14v; other than that a bit twitchy

          NC-5: one of the best motors out there, very easy to drive, quick w/out being crazy

          NC-6: one more gear than the NC-5, w/ a little more punch

          my JGTC's w/ Crushers go like bats-out-o-hell, white knuckle, edge of your seat, on a wood track, drop down to the Speeders and get a little tamer ride.

          so far, my NC-2's are finding their way into Pink-Kar Beetle's & GTO's

          I've got an old Ninco BMW M3 - NC-2, it's OK, but I always thought it could do better. I got the Advan/Yokohama w/ an NC-5 - what a different car!

          remember to compute gear ratio's, motor configuration, tire O.D., car weight, voltage, & controller resistance before comparing motors. if you get the chance, do it all again using the same car & controller.

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          • #6
            Hi Martini,
            I agree with with your descriptions about the performance of the 2,5 & 6, and that should be the results normally attained. I also agree with your recommendations of what to compare when testing different configurations.
            Knowing ElS, and his racing backround, and his knowledge of setting up cars, I feel confident he is not in the twilight zone.... he was simply making a very interesting observation based on a single testing experience.

            Think Red!
            Bob/NINCO1

            Bob/NINCO1

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            • #7
              NC 5 & NC 6 powered Meganes

              I have 3 Meganes set up magnetless that I run more than ant other car I own.The first 2 I built with the NC 5. Great motor,super smooth. The third was a Pro Race Megane,and I used the NC 6 that came in the kit. Killer motor!!! Perfect balance of speed and torque.This car holds the track record on my 110' track! Just bought 3 more NC 6s(gotta upgrade the fleet)Ninco,great motor and MORE Meganes please.

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              • #8
                I have tested all those motors in my independent lab (my basement), altho Ninco Bob has been kind enough to supply a few loaner motors for some of the RPM tests. I have some experience driving them in other peoples' cars in the RAA '06 , and the GPR '07.

                The earlier NC-2 had an all-black label, and turned the advertized 18k RPM on 14.8v. The red-wrapper NC-2 (the last two years) was nearly indistinguishable from the NC-5, as if the later production NC2's were really NC-5's. Both reved tov the same 20k or so on 14.8v. The NC-6 revved as advertized, and was notably faster in cars.

                Kurt's observation of similar times from NC2 and NC5 are consistent with my measurements and racing observations.
                Last edited by Robert Livingston; 07-27-2007, 06:13 PM.

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                • #9
                  Missing information

                  What Kurt hasn't mentioned, is whether or not these cars were running with magnets; this would be where the more powerful motors would be able to shine, instead of spinning the wheels, one would think.

                  Or at least, I would.

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                  • #10
                    Missing info

                    This is a magged configuration for each car, and we were running at 15+ volts. Stock (red plastic) gearing on the NSX and Megane, ProRace red on the M3.

                    But yes, this is a single occurrence. What I do know is that on my 12 foot straight, three identical cars are rarely neck and neck beginning to end, let alone 3 different cars with supposedly different motors on a 42 foot straight. The fact that it's 3 cars, not just 2, is pretty odd. I'm going to be able to get all 3 cars to a magnet marshal tomorrow.

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                    • #11
                      It could be that when you crank the voltage the performance doesnt vary as much.

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                      • #12
                        Experience on Ninco track and wood

                        Kurt has forgotten more about slots than I'll probably ever know, so I put it down to a mixture of circuit and car choice and setup, in combination.

                        We run a "Ninco Modified" class at our local club on Ninco track, and allow as much magnet as you like - fact is, too much mag. just slows them down, so it's always a balance. We're down to pretty much 5 seconds dead on this 98 foot track, so they're flying. All the competitive drivers run NC-6. We note a differrence of between 0.5 and 0.75, for the same car, running NC-6 vs. NC-5. The heavy loading really bring the NC-6 through.
                        These motors pull 2.5 amps at take off (each), and 1.25 amps or more at running speeds. 5 amps average continuous load (4 lanes on 25 amp, switchmode power supply set at 13.8 V) that's 10 times R.L.'s free spinning motor tests, due to the high downforces.

                        This is the track.


                        Under heavy load, the NC-6 is, as expected a country mile faster.
                        Most folk use the 13/32 highest gearing, because it is a fast flowing circuit.
                        [Note for Bob: How DO you kill one of these motors????]

                        We have killed one, a guy glued the whole motor, axle bush together in a panic repair, then tried to keep up with the pack for 4 heats - it cooked the magnets.) I THOUGHT I cooked one, but decided to give it a "bath" yesterday - four hours in water, and a couple of doses of warm water and detergent to speed out the flush of the carbon . . beggar me, it's now my fastest motor on the dyno and under load.

                        We also run them a bit on a largish wood track (no mag obviously) and mostly keep the same gearing - sheer laziness on my part.
                        This one - 100ft.



                        We generally run them 13.8 volt here as well.

                        The NC-6 cars are also a lot faster here, more punch out of corners, and most importantly, more brake.

                        Lap times with to slot.its with the old 25K motor or new 21.5K orange endbell motor, using identical tyres are pretty close. The best slot.it chassis Mclaren and Nissan, - have a small edge, to be expected given their extreme low chassis and C.O.G. compared to the Ninco Mosler running 18" pro-race wheels and axles in the factory standard position, set up for the plastic track.

                        NC-5 powered cars aren't close to this performance level.

                        I also have a few NC-2 motors out of a batch of older cars, and likewise found the red can ones to be almost indistinguishable from NC-5, and a measure faster than the earlier black can NC-2s.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by da_rainbow View Post
                          It could be that when you crank the voltage the performance doesnt vary as much.
                          Scaley wall warts. 15+ volts measured under load.

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                          • #14
                            The gearing makes a big difference in the NC-2. The NC-2 BMW has 3:1 (black), while the NC-5 AW cars come with 12/32 or 2.62:1 (red). I put the red gearing in my NC-2 BMW and it now flys on my short Sport track nonmag, right with the NC-5 cars.

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                            • #15
                              SlotzNZ - Are you sure about those amp draw numbers for the Ninco's...I've run them on 1A wall units without a problem, yet a motor like a 48K Cheetah or Falcon will cause the wall unit to cease giving power after some laps - and those motors don't draw as much as what you posted...roughly 2A on full acceleration and 1A or so constant running on a Pyramid variable at 14V...just wondering as all Ninco motors are rated for "home use" power.

                              Da Vols - Bruce & Harriet

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