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The Up Coming R18 e-Tron ...

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  • #16
    Originally posted by ModelTrainGuy View Post
    Whoa ...
    And the model , not only blesses us with mechanicals, is a excellent attempt at scale accuracy and a good lookin model (I'm digin on the clean rear deck!)
    I really appreciate this comment, the clean rear deck is something I've put my soul in.


    • #17
      Originally posted by View Post
      1 - it will be 4WD, with an innovative clutched and belt driven system. I don't think it's ever been used on a slot car before.
      Sounds to me like we are going to see some 4WD RC car technology in slot cars soon! I did not think that one-way bearings were available small enough, but perhaps there's some other way to do this?

      Originally posted by View Post
      2 - The chassis has already been changed and is entering production in the next R18, CA24b, n.1 LM 2011. Changes include:
      a - repositioning of the front wheels position (higher): this greatly improves the looks (the CA24b's new stance is fantastic IMO) and handling of the box stock car, and is also necessary for proper 4WD run.
      b - improvement of the pickup area, leaving more space for the cable
      c - completely new, redesigned pickup, screw mounted, compatible with standard braids. Cable and braids are pressed together by the flat end side of a M2 grub screw.
      Will these parts be available separately so we can update the earlier cars?




      • #18
        Yes, they will.
        The real story behind the R18 is that it started as a joke as I didn't believe it would have been possible...

        When I said "heck, it's a 4WD, it would be great if we did it like the real car" the other half of (Maurizio Gibertoni) at first though that I was joking, then started worrying. He always does this when he believes I'm after something . But I reassured him that I was just joking, like making a Chaparral 2J with working fans. That's when he rolled his eyes.

        I can't be too specific yet on all the detail, which will be available at the end of September, but IMO it's a 'Grand Complication' as far as a slot car goes. It features clutched bearings, extra bearing hubs, a custom made 1.5mm width tooth belt, micro toothed pulleys, and a simple chain tensioner. To make room for the pulley, wheel width will be less that the 10mm Audi R18 standard models, but rear rims are standard catalog parts, compatible with PT27 and 1207N18 tyres.

        Eventually, I was able to fit everything inside the 1/32 Audi E-Tron body and trust me it's no small accomplishment. The car, even in its current prototype form, as been raced for a few hours with no issues. It even went around a rally track in Gaydon under the eyes of Gareth Jex (I'm sure many of you know him, he's the organizer of the GB Rally Championship): if it wasn't for a tight hairpin where the car's chassis got stuck on the steep gradient, it ran very well! No signs of understeer.

        I'm sure you want to know whether it runs faster than a standard 2WD: well, it remains to be seen, but I don't think it's the most interesting point in this car. In any case, the less grip you have, the better for 4WD. Things get very interesting on low grip tracks.

        Testing shows that the same car, all other things being equal, ran consistently faster on a Carrera club track with the 4WD system on, than with its front tyres removed, due to a much better traction. What I haven't done is run the same test with the same car setup as 4WD, then remove the whole front end and any unnecessary weight (belt, bearigs, etc...), replace it with a standard front end, and time it against the 4WD version.

        In any case, I can say that the system works reliably and the car as a whole runs very well. I hope you'll like racing it as much as I liked designing it.


        • #19
          Sprag clutch (one way bearing) wheel bearings? Interesting, but these are used to allow rear only braking on RC cars in order to get better turn in and I am not sure of the advantage on a slot car? Besides the increased grip during acceleration, I have found additional braking force from the front wheels of AWD slot cars to be an advantage too. I can see that if running a split ratio with the front wheels turning slower than rears, the sprag clutch would eliminate scrubbing on the straights. But most AWD rally slots with split ratios run the front wheels faster to pull the car straight in turns. I am not sure what you are doing, Mauricio, but I am sure it will be good!


          • #20
            Gentlemen, we have the technology!

            This naturally begs the question, do you now find yourself considering an AWD rally car?

            Would be an interesting departure for!


            • #21
              Rally shmally...

              Last edited by Kerry; 07-07-2013, 10:37 AM. Reason: iPad is a great tool but not for everything...


              • #22
                Hi Kerry,
                of course the Audi Quattro IMSA is an amazing subject and would fit the 4WD stuff like a glove. However, there are only two decorations, number 4 and 5 (I think), identical apart from the number.
                But it's a fantastic car.

                Pete, I am aware of the rally setup - but I think that in an LMP this setup should work better - also because I would like this setup to work with all wheels flat on the track, whereas I've seen in general that 4WD rally cars come with smaller front wheels.

                Anyway, once this is out, and different pulleys are released, you can try different setups.



                • #23
                  Most unfortunate...

                  It turns out I was fortunate to have seen them race at Portland in 1989, one of very few races in which they competed.

                  I hadn't realized the other 3 SCX liveries were all fantasy.

                  Hans-Joachim Stuck and Walter Röhrl ran 04 at the Road America 500 km because the GTP/GTO/GTU classes all ran together.

                  Since they did put the names on the roof, 5 liveries are possible, although only the 3 numbers...

                  04-Hans-Joachim Stuck/Walter Röhrl at Road America 500 km
                  4-Hans-Joachim Stuck/Walter Röhrl at 500km Watkins Glen
                  4-Hans-Joachim Stuck
                  5-Hurley Haywood
                  5-Hurley Haywood/Scott Goodyear

                  Oh well...

                  Now about that Jaguar XJR-14/Mazda MXR01/TWR-Porsche WSC-95:
                  That chassis won Le Mans twice...


                  • #24
                    They aren't 90's

                    but they could be great 90 liveries......

                    I believe there is a Rothmans livery too.


                    • #25

                      The AWD aspect does seem neat & cool... But I have to think it would add significantly to cost (not to mention the cost of your design effort) and that old bugaboo ... Complexity ... then reliability

                      This may make for a more prototypically accurate car (but is the e-tron Quattro, a full time AWD car ?) and unfortunately, at the end of the day, the hard core racer dudes that markets to, are only going to be interested ... If AWD makes the car faster ...

                      Slot track "physics" , has shown me so far, that the fastest stuff on slots, don't even have front wheels ... (wing cars) Or look like cars (sigh)

                      Hey , Those Audi sedans , I believe were highly modified Audi 5000's ??? (as marketed in the US)

                      I believe I saw them , Run on the Streets of DeeTroit in a supporting race when F1 ran on the streets of Detroit, MI, back in the '80's

                      Those big Audis , whomped on all the Mustangs and Camaros you could throw at 'em ...

                      What class was that racing ?


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by ModelTrainGuy View Post
                        What class was that racing ?

                        Trans AM I think. I got to see them stomp everything else at Burke Lakefront in Cleveland. There are a couple other liveries, well same livery, different # as discussed:


                        And yes, about that XJR10/11/14...



                        • #27
                          The Audi raced in the NA Trans Am championship in 1988 for just that year because 4 wheel drive was banned the next year. In 1989 they moved to the IMSA GTO class where 4 wheel drive was still legal. Watched those race a few times, could about pass anyone anywhere they wanted and just awesome in the rain. Do a search for "Secrets of Speed" on youtube...


                          • #28
                            Yep Fellas ! That's the ticket. Guess I was lucky to have seen them in Detroit.

                            So lets hope if Maurizio has the 4WD "hardware", we''ll see it under this Audi shell. I think the "200" was a revamped "5000" (around the time of the "acceleration" issues)

                            Funny how real racing messes with technology, 4WD, the Mazda rotary, other stuff. I mean isn't racing supposed to lead to better street cars ?


                            • #29
                              Still would have been the 5000 in the US in '88, changed to the 200 designation in '89. The designation was changed, in part, due to the acceleration issues reported in the cars in the US and fraudulently presented during a 60 minutes episode.
                              Last edited by MMalehorn; 07-08-2013, 06:46 PM.


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Kerry View Post
                                It turns out I was fortunate to have seen them race at Portland in 1989, one of very few races in which they competed.
                                I was at Laguna and saw Alessi in the F40 and Stuck go at it, as shown in your pic above. It was one of the most amazing races I've ever seen. Those cars were monsters! The trans am cars were just modified 5000s, but the IMSA GTO 90s were tube frame monsters with rear size tires at all 4 corners. Here is Hans laying down some power at Lime Rock: