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Getting my old Champion and Parma running again

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  • Getting my old Champion and Parma running again

    Hey 1/24 scale guys! Turns out there is a whole world out there besides HO scale... who knew?

    Anyway, I noticed that there are a few larger commercial tracks in the area, so I figured I'd dust these off and see if I can get them back on the road.



    This is my main squeeze, a Champion Turboflex with a DCR Thunderbird NASCAR body. I built this car when I was--you guessed it--13 years old, and it hasn't seen a track since the 90s! PS, notice who had the nickname "THUNDER" loooong before Chick Hicks Got great memories racing this at Boogie Speedway in Michigan. These stamped steel chassis slide and drive so nice!

    I totally destroyed the original sponge tires, and the original motor still runs, but the mount/bushing area on the can is pretty mangled, so I swapped in this old Parma unit temporarily (is this the venerable 16D?). I need to find the right size allen wrench for the gears and rear wheels, they're just on there for placement right now. After some lubrication and "massaging" it runs smooth on a 9V battery, no binding or skipping, so I just need to tighten everything down and get some new o-rings for the front wheels, and this thing should finally be ready to drive again. Got a brand new set of rims with sponge tires already mounted if these old orange ones don't work out (I haven't attempted to glue them on yet--any suggestions? They're still soft.) Eventually I'll replace that frayed motor wire too.



    Then there's this old Parma Flexi, which I've never run myself. Picked it up at a garage sale years ago and stuck it in the cigar box with the Champion. The Champion needs a new motor, so this one got tapped temporarily, and the wheels are just loose on the axles for the pic. I love the extended front end on this one, it uses a normal rear axle and rear wheels, which gives the whole car an... interesting look. I have to tape up the body a little because one of the pin holes pulled through, but once I get the right wrench and some spacers, this one should be running again too. I'm curious how it drives with that front end extension.



    I've also got 2 and 4 ohm resistors for one of my Parma handles--any idea which one would be best for this setup? I know HO scale resistance but this is a whole new world for me. Any advice on setup for either of them? Good online hobby shops to get replacement parts for these old cars? Basically my only spare parts are 1 set of new pickup braids/inserts, a new set of rear wheels/tires, and a larger spur gear--I believe all of which will fit either chassis. I'm not planning on racing either of them, just doing a few hot laps on the big tracks from time to time and I want them to be reliable and not dog slow. Thanks!
    Last edited by el gecko; 05-02-2018, 06:25 PM.

  • #2
    (is this the venerable 16D?)
    It's a Parma 16d - looks like a 1990s one. The new ones have somewhat different looking endbells The screw fixings are still the same. The super 16d is a quicker motor the same size.

    Got a brand new set of rims with sponge tires already mounted if these old orange ones don't work out (I haven't attempted to glue them on yet--any suggestions? )
    Those old orange tyres have probably lost most of their grip, but the hubs should be reusable.
    Contact cement works well for gluing on foam tyres. Whatever brand they sell where you are should be OK.

    I've also got 2 and 4 ohm resistors for one of my Parma handles--any idea which one would be best for this setup?
    For a raceway type track probably the 2, but take the 4 just in case

    once I get the right wrench and some spacers, this one should be running again too
    Wheels and gears will have 4 40 screws, ao you'll need a 0.050 inch hex wrench

    Comment


    • #3
      The wrench size is 0.050 inch. You can get the wrench and spacers directly from Parma. 16D motors are not available from Parma at this time. Parma has been in disarray for several years and is only now starting to get its act together. You could rebuild the motors that you have if grooves have not been worn in the commutators. The can bearings and motor brushes would need to be replaced. The motor brushes would have to be broken on the bench at 6 volts for 30 minutes to avoid damaging the commutators.
      You did not say if you intended to race your cars. If you do not want to rebuild the motors you would have to inquire about legal replacements if you want to race.
      These cars will run better if you solder the motor to both the motor bracket and to the bottom of the chassis.
      Get new tires, sponge tires will harden up and loose grip unless they are placed in a sealed container and stored in a freezer.
      You can find O rings for the front wheels at any hardware store.
      Most people would use a 3 ohm resistor with a 16D motor. I like to use a 2.5 or 2 ohm resistor depending on the track.

      Comment


      • #4
        gecko -

        Be careful...you just may put your HO into hibernation..!
        I run both 32nd and 24th on my home (wood) track.
        My 24th cars are all steel chassis of some sort. My 32nd cars are split between steel and plastic. The steel chassied cars are MUCH faster, and more fun...to me.
        Fun, Fun, Fun..!

        Mike

        Comment


        • #5
          Thanks, guys. I don't plan on racing these, just ripping around whatever track I decide to take them to for test and tune. Got my 2 and 4 ohm resistors wired up into some controllers, ready to rock. I'll try them both and see which I like better.

          Does anyone sell replacement cans for any of these style motors? Any compatibility issues within/between brands? I also still have the stock Champion motor, which seems to run better and stronger than the 16D, but my hamfisted teenage self mangled the mounting area trying to reseat the bushing. I can totally reuse the arm/endbell/pinion but the can is toast.

          Can I swap the endbell and arm into a new can without removing the pinion and bushing? Is there a technique for seating the bushing in the new can? I was thinking about swapping everything into the old Parma can because it appears to have the same endbell mounts, but I didn't want to screw up the only remaining operational motor in the box.

          I'm going to hold off soldering until I get the motor situation figured out, so hopefully the screws hold, at least enough to test. Now I just need to make a trip to the hardware store.

          Comment


          • #6
            The endbells, cans and armatures are interchangeable between different brands of 16d, the only issue is that most but not all have the endbell fixing screws in the same position. It's easy enough to to redrill the fixing holes if that's a problem.

            C can size motors are a little smaller than 16d, the arms will fit either, but the C can endbells/cans are not 16d size.

            You ask "Can I swap the endbell and arm into a new can without removing the pinion and bushing?"

            If the pinion is at the can end (which the one in your photo is) endbells can be swapped without removing the arm

            You'll need to remove the pinion to swap the arm. Don't remove the bushing unless it is worn and needs replacing.

            Parma don't seem to list 16d cans separately these days, but the guys who race these things probably have a few spare because the can itself is usually serviceable when other parts of the motor have failed.

            Comment


            • #7
              The Parma 16D is extinct. Yes, there's a vast supply of used & new bits laying about (a large number are in my basement ) but ProSlot makes a much better item that is a) balanced, and b) still in production! individual parts are also readily available. Go to https://www.proslot.com for a complete list. The ProSlot magnets, armatures and endbells will fit the Parma can but the ProSlot brush plates and hoods will not fit a Parma endbell.

              You will also find the ProSlot 4002FK as an alternative. It's an S-can size and VERY quick.

              Comment


              • #8
                The Parma being extinct is fine, I just need to find a suitable replacement that will fit the existing mounts (I'm not sold on soldering them to the chassis just yet). I mentioned that I still have the stock Champion motor--here it is. I just need to find the right can to replace it with, and perhaps a new pinion-side bushing as well.

                The only problem with this motor is that the end of the can is mangled so the bushing won't stay in. This armature runs stronger than the Parma I swapped into my Champion. I've been thinking of slopping some super glue on there to see if it will hold and I can actually run it like this. This is the reason I need to find a new can. Is this D size? I'm not sure how subtle the differences are between D, C and S cans. I need to find a decent gear puller for these brass press-on pinions.




                Comment


                • #9
                  So the only problem with that motor is the can end bushing is loose?
                  That's easy to fix. Either glue it in with loctite bearing fit (or similar) OR solder it in. Both methods are very widely used and both work very well.
                  Either way the can and bushing need cleaning first. Usually that needs removal of the pinion. It looks like that motor has a 48 pitch 9 tooth pinion, they are usually too big to go through the bushing hole in the can so you'll probably have to remove the pinion.
                  If there's any wear in the old bushing, it would make sense to fit a new one.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    If you expect to race your cars the motor should be soldered to the chassis. If the motor is only held in place with screws it may move in the event of a crash, or the motor bracket may bend. In either case the spur gear could get chewed up. Flexi type cars can chatter in the corners, soldering the motor in place also helps to fix that.
                    The can bearing on a used motor is likely to be worn out. If the can was in good shape you could just press in a new one. Since the can is damaged it would be best to remove the old bearing and bore out the bearing hole slightly. Wrap layers of tape around the armature until it is a snug fit between the magnets. Solder the bearing in place. When the tape is removed the armature will be centered and the bearings will be aligned.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by el gecko View Post
                      The Parma being extinct is fine, I just need to find a suitable replacement that will fit the existing mounts (I'm not sold on soldering them to the chassis just yet). I mentioned that I still have the stock Champion motor--here it is. I just need to find the right can to replace it with, and perhaps a new pinion-side bushing as well.

                      The only problem with this motor is that the end of the can is mangled so the bushing won't stay in. This armature runs stronger than the Parma I swapped into my Champion. I've been thinking of slopping some super glue on there to see if it will hold and I can actually run it like this. This is the reason I need to find a new can. Is this D size? I'm not sure how subtle the differences are between D, C and S cans. I need to find a decent gear puller for these brass press-on pinions.
                      If a can and bushing are all you need, I have a box of those cans (and endbells) and be happy to send you anything you need. As far as soldering the motor in, yes... it's the best way to keep a good mesh, racing or not. If you want to stay away from soldering I would recommend the use of some serious double-sided tape (I used to use 3M #444 under the can and loctite on the screws). As Al pointed out, everything should be cleaned thoroughly beforehand.

                      Comment

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