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Pioneers made for Carrera Digital?

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  • DrumPhil
    started a topic Pioneers made for Carrera Digital?

    Pioneers made for Carrera Digital?

    Like many on SCI, I'm impressed with Pioneer's cars -- not to mention the responsive attitude of the company to discussions on this forum. Many (if not most) recent Pioneer models come with a chassis that is digital-plug-ready for Scalextric. In another thread, I asked Jules about the possibility of making a Carrera-digital-ready chassis. He responded asking for a discussion:

    "Hello Phil,

    An interesting and timely request. It might not surprise you to learn that, by far and away, the most often asked question refers to running the Pioneer models on Carrera Digital. This request mainly comes from Germany and France where sales of Pioneer are solid in a market that is dominated by Carrera.

    I guess it all comes down to economics with the practical side of how to do it a close second. To be honest, after I made the decision back in May '09 to run with the Scaley DPR, I have not looked any further into the matter.

    You mentioned in your post a Carrera 'plug'. Is that available? Without looking into this too deeply I would imagine that the only way to do the job successfully, and easily for the user would be for a plug that carries the Carrera PCB chipset that would plug into the loom already in place for Scalextric DPR.

    Maybe start a post in the digital section on this forum to see if some of the knowledgeable folks on this forum have any suggestions. I will follow them up and investigate. The resulting answer (if any) would require the cooperation of Carrera, which might be any entirely different problem altogether.

    Jules"

    So I'm starting this thread to discuss what it would require to make Carrera-ready Pioneer cars.

    Discuss!!

  • DrumPhil
    replied
    Yeah, Scoot, that's about what mine sounds like. I wondered if it might be the cutaway interior vibrating, but it makes the same noise with the body off. I guess the Charger just has a loud hemi in it!

    Leave a comment:


  • Scootcar50
    replied
    Hi Guys
    I think DrumPhil got the quite one

    Have a listen to mine




    http://youtu.be/BF-SEL-IOi0
    Last edited by Scootcar50; 08-25-2011, 10:26 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • DrumPhil
    replied
    Skipper,
    Converting Pioneer to D132 is not too bad, especially if it's a DPR model. Just be prepared to cut away a fair amount of the interior floor to make room for the chip. And be sure to leave access to magnet locations if you want to move or remove the magnet.

    Leave a comment:


  • Skipper
    replied
    I may be picking up a Pioneer for a Carrera mod to when I have a little experience. I'm going to do a Carrera evolution car first though to get my feet wet, so to speak. Especially if they get the AMC Javelin out.

    Leave a comment:


  • DrumPhil
    replied
    Jules,
    Your attention to detail is much appreciated, as is obvious by all your loyal fans on this site. Keep up the good work. (And thanks again for the replacement axle.)
    Phil

    Leave a comment:


  • Pioneer
    replied
    This gear noise issue has more to do with the contact patch of pinion to spur. The great surface area of plastic2plastic, the greater the noise. We are considering making the spur gear slimmer. This does reduce the noise.

    I find that some of the models have the spur gear quite tight up against the flange plate on the pinion. It should not be actually in contact there, that adds to friction and noise. Generally, I find that easing the pinion further down the shaft away from the spur - by a few hairs - makes it better.

    Unfortunately, the assembly workers think that the end plate on the pinion is some kind of stop and insist on butting them up tight. That end plate is simply best practice plastic design and is there simply to stop the pinion from splitting down a gear channel.

    Fly an Scalextric have a similar contact patch as the Pioneers, hence the similar noise. Autoart, for example, use a narrow spur and are fairly quiet as a result.

    Nice work with that Carrera Digital conversion, DrumPhil.

    Jules

    Leave a comment:


  • DrumPhil
    replied
    Thanks Greg. That's what I wanted to know.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrFlippant
    replied
    Sounds pretty normal to me. Of the three I have, they're all similar to that. One of the guys in DRAWW (we just ran the Pioneer cars in a series) has a pretty quiet one.

    Carrera cars are probably the quietest of the "big 4" slot companies, and slot.it is even more quiet. Rest assured that Pioneer cars are not the loudest by far. Wait until you get some fly cars. ;-)

    Pioneer motors aren't especially smooth and quiet, but the vibration is only enhanced by the gear mesh and configuration.

    So, no, you don't have what I would call a loud Pioneer, just a Pioneer.

    Can it be quieted more? Probably. Look for ways to reduce vibration, such as gluing in the motor, the axle bushings, checking for bend axles, wheels and such. In the end, if it really bothers you, I believe the motor is the same format as Scalextric and slot.it motors, and you would also be able to replace the gears for a better, quieter mesh.

    Leave a comment:


  • DrumPhil
    replied
    Pioneer noise comparison

    I tried running the gears in toothpaste for a while, and if the noise changed at all, it may have gotten a little louder. Here are short videos that compare the Pioneer with a Carrera and a Slot.it.

    http://youtu.be/Tcf53_aKEes

    http://youtu.be/0pIT6KTjkgM

    http://youtu.be/6zyn9n47XDI

    http://youtu.be/Z332J7b7Y9w

    The difference in sound is obvious. The Pioneer runs great and behaves very well on the track. I'm just hoping someone can tell me whether that motor noise is typical of the Typhoon sidewinder motor configuration. If so, I'll just live with it. But if mine is unusually noisy, I'll run in the gears some more or try other suggestions you might have.

    Thanks for the help,
    Phil
    Last edited by DrumPhil; 06-30-2011, 08:44 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • DrumPhil
    replied
    Originally posted by ottawaslotter View Post
    I find if you put some toothpaste or even liquid 3M finishing compound on the gears and run it stationary for 10-15 minutes at a lower speed and then clean it out really well the noisey gear mesh on the monogram and pioneers goes away. ...
    Yep - I've done that in the past with a few Carreras, and it helped. I just didn't know what to expect from a sidewinder, and wasn't sure if this level of noise was normal. If I have time I'll run in the gears with some toothpaste this weekend.


    @Randy - thanks. It is a sharp looking car. Tonight I added a little CA glue on the bottom of the passenger seat, which was wobbly loose after all the cutting. Otherwise, it's done, and I'm glad.

    Leave a comment:


  • rtrandy
    replied
    Nice work Phil, it looks like turned out pretty good.
    Looks great on your track I may have to get one of those too.

    Thanks for the pics
    Randy

    Leave a comment:


  • ottawaslotter
    replied
    I find if you put some toothpaste or even liquid 3M finishing compound on the gears and run it stationary for 10-15 minutes at a lower speed and then clean it out really well the noisey gear mesh on the monogram and pioneers goes away. I have had to do it several times but the difference is amazing. Got the tip from a write up on the vintage monogram nascars and tried it.
    Chris

    Leave a comment:


  • DrumPhil
    replied
    Pioneer Charger Pics

    On Track



    Chassis from underneath. Removed the DPR plug box from the top of the cover plate, but making holes for the LED and switch was the easiest step of all.



    Chip mounted in chassis. I had to solder the motor wires directly to the chip to save room, and because the tiny original chip wires broke off after too much handling.



    Interior floors cut away to make room for chip. You can see daylight up through the passenger side. When the car is assembled, you can see the chip inside if you look down into the footwell. When on track, it's not visible.

    Leave a comment:


  • rtrandy
    replied
    Phil
    Glad to hear you got it on the track and running.
    If you took any pics of it I would like to see how it turned out.

    Mine also has more gear noise than my other cars, it may just be the body design. Some cars seem to echo the gear noise more than others. But sidewinders do seem a little nosier.

    Randy

    Leave a comment:

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