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Fray Armatures Wanted

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  • #16
    Could the AW chassis be a viable option?

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    • #17
      My club races the Johnny Lightning/Auto World Thunderjet 500 cars without the neo traction magnet. We run those with weighted front ends like T-Jet SS cars use, but they use slip-on tires.

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      • #18
        So they could become the Fray (and other 'big' pancake races) chassis of choice?

        The Dash would probably be better, but only if it is plentiful, on sale to all, and likely to be around 5-10 years from now.

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        • #19
          Until this year NOS Aurora rolling chassis and spare parts have been commonly available along with aftermarket gears, axles wheels, tires, pickup shoes, springs and motor brushes, so as far as I was concerned there was no problem with running under ECHORR T-Jet SS rules as they were a year or two ago. The only hitch for me was finding good armatures. I bought my first T-Jet when they came out in 1963. Most of my cars were stolen while I was in the Army. When I got out of the Army there was no place for me to race and by the time there was T-Jets had been replaced with the A/FX and later Magnatraction cars.
          I got back into HO cars around 1992 and started running in formal races in 2001. Since I had not run T-Jets for many years I had to start from scratch with those and it took a long time to have competitive cars. Gradually I mastered the finer points of tuning the cars, but the final obstacle was finding good armatures. The armatures found in late production NOS Aurora rolling chassis are usually not suited for competition. Eventually I found a source for good armatures, but those are no longer available.
          The people that have raced T-Jets from the earliest days certainly must have good armatures, for the most part I expect that they are the ones that have been writing the rules.
          Now NOS rolling chassis and spare parts are nearly all gone and it is time to reconsider the rules for this type of car. For a long time HOCOC has run Aurora and Johnny Lightning/Auto World cars in separate classes. When the T-Dash car came along we allowed those in the JL class. Maybe it is time to run all three chassis in the T-Jet SS class as long a 16 ohm armature is used. Whatever might be run should be commonly available. It would be nice if commonly available meant that most hobby shops and online dealers would always have them in stock. Having to scavenge ebay for stuff is not my idea of commonly available.

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          • #20
            Eeeeyup.

            Way too many rules kept me from Fray. Well, that, and the chatty head of the local team telling me how expensive it would be to build cars.

            They begged me to join when I dropped a Thunderjet of unknown origin with Tuff Ones wheels and a brass nut for a weight in the front in and easily kept up with the carefully built and tuned Fray cars with my $4 Aurora controller.

            I wondered why it just couldn't be that easy. I suspected it was to level the field for the mediocre drivers.

            I walked in with junk and kicked @$$, but that wasn't allowed.

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            • #21
              You can't race with just junk. You have to race with the approved high price junk!

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              • #22
                I say let people experiment.

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                • #23
                  I think what is needed is for the Fray bigwigs and top racers to commission a chassis and parts themselves, so there is a reliable source of alternatives to the 60s stuff - which should be dropped.

                  As Rich said, scouring eBay is no answer. Nor are alternatives that are not available to all, all the time.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by JimDouglasJr View Post
                    I say let people experiment.
                    That's already happening.

                    Everyone close to the event and the racing community knows what "no arms available" means to the growth of the hobby/racing opportunities.

                    There are experiments/options being explored by many groups and organizers.

                    I feel that there will be a good option come to the front soon. Maybe not for this year's Fray, but soon.

                    Let's all hope.

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                    • #25
                      That sounds promising.

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                      • #26
                        Good.
                        I totally get the tech block. I mean, the cars can only be so wide, etc. with track/lane width limitations.

                        What I don't understand is why there's such specific restriction on gear ratios, resistance, etc.

                        Let people build the best car they can. "Oh, whaaaa! You found a better combination of parts than I did! - WHAAAAAA, MOMMY!"

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by JimDouglasJr View Post
                          Good.
                          I totally get the tech block. I mean, the cars can only be so wide, etc. with track/lane width limitations.

                          What I don't understand is why there's such specific restriction on gear ratios, resistance, etc.

                          Let people build the best car they can. "Oh, whaaaa! You found a better combination of parts than I did! - WHAAAAAA, MOMMY!"
                          Race Gravity then. Car has to fit through the tech block and can't pick up the tech pin (No magnetic down force). Use whatever motor, gears, etc. you want.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by JimDouglasJr View Post
                            Good.
                            I totally get the tech block. I mean, the cars can only be so wide, etc. with track/lane width limitations.

                            What I don't understand is why there's such specific restriction on gear ratios, resistance, etc.

                            Let people build the best car they can. "Oh, whaaaa! You found a better combination of parts than I did! - WHAAAAAA, MOMMY!"
                            Believe it or not, the original intent was to have the cars be as close to a stock t-jet as possible, with a few small mods. (wide stance and wider tires for handling reasons.)

                            Then the aftermarket can of worms opened up, and The organizers saw how easy it was to go pretty fast.

                            Then the gears came, and the tires, the front ends, the bodies, the axles, the brushes, the arms, and the pre-built cars.

                            Next thing you know, you can throw $170 at a T-Jet prepped for the Fray and and get beat handily all day long.

                            I feel that the organizers will adjust and try to steer back to the origins of the event.

                            It won't happen all at once........patience grasshopper.

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                            • #29
                              The "why" behind any rule is often lost in the mists of time. Why is baseball played on a diamond? I always thought that a figure eight would be more fun. I expect that most of the time the original intent would be to have a level playing field, thus parts that are not commonly available would not be allowed. As time goes by parts that were once easy to come by might become scarce, such is the case with 16 ohm Aurora pancake arms.
                              We review our rules every year and we at least try to keep things on an even keel.

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                              • #30
                                On a completely separate note (and apologies to Rich for going off topic from the Fray Armature thing, but what the heck, he's talking baseball now ... ) being as a lot of racers tend to ignore forums outside of their favourite scale, I would like to point out this one from long time SCI Member Dyno Dom.

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