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  • Spirit Porsche 936

    Crap. This was supposed to have been posted....months ago.


    Imagine if you will............
    It's 1974. Racing is done for the year.
    The FIA announces that from 1975 the Car World Championship for Makes (manufacturers) will be competed for with Gp.5, production based, cars rather than the 'experimental prototypes' of most of the last decade. FIA also announces a seperate championship for those Gp.6 prototypes.

    Imagine that you're in charge of Porshce's racing activities. You've heard many such pronouncements in the past and have little faith that it will in fact come to pass.....especially on such short notice.

    Imagine............LeMans is not to be part of that World Championship. In fact the ACO has announced that all will be welcome. And Lemans.....well that's what it's all about. No one much remembers who won the championship but everyone knows who won LeMans.

    In fact it would be 1976 before that FIA plan took effect. By '76 you have the Gp.5 935 sorted out and are fully prepared for the World Championship For makes.

    So you look and imagine the Gp.6 competition. Alfa Romeo won the Championship in '75 and is making noises about their return. Mirage had won at LeMans in '75 and their cars are fully developed and certainly fast. Renault has their A442s and is desperate to win LeMans so their masters will allow them the move to Formula One.

    'Yes. We will build the 936.' LeMans you know.

    Six months later it is done, and on the cheap at that. Parts and knowledge gained from the last decade of racing go in to the new car. From the 917 are brakes, hubs, springs and a never used five speed gearbox. From the Carrera RSR Turbo come the 2.14 litre turbocharged engine with something like 520 horsepower. The 15x10.5 and 15x15 wheels come from the 908-3. Even the tube frame and glass fibre body bear much resemblance to Porsche prototypes of the past.

    And it goes. Everyones smiling after the first track session at Paul Ricard.

    Two months later you're not smiling. The first race of the year is to be run at The Nurburgring and Renault brings their cars in 1975 specification with higher than allowed rear wings and wider than allowed wheels/tyres. Remember you have little faith in FIAs willingness to stand by their decisions?

    Now you'll learn that you were correct to have so little faith.

    Anyway the decision by FIA was that Renault could run the wider wheels/tyres but only for this race and that everyone else would be allowed to raise their rear wings to the same height as on the Renaults. That ruling on the rear wings to stay in effect for the complete season. This ruling presents no real problem for you and the wing is quickly raised. Did you remember that the FIA was then even more Gallic than it is today?

    The rainy race is certainly a let down. The two Renaults collide with each other in the first turn. The black Porsche 936 stops on course in front of the Martini management with a broken throttle cable and there it sits 'til the end. Not just a bad race but the Martini sponsorship is almost invisible on the black car. From henceforth the cars will be white.




    Be aware the car is not attached to it's base. For shipping purposes the Porsche 936 is held in place by a polycarbonate version of itself.......perhaps to provide a super lightweight 'competition' shell.............. Shipping the car this way more or less insures it will arrive safely and with the chassis intact. There is supplied a screw with which to attach the car to it's base, this can be found taped to the underside of said base.

    There are photographs of this car, 936-001, with the original lower wing 'endplates'. Those photos are correct but the car was never raced with the low wing. Similarly there are photos of this car with mesh type BBS wheels. No Porsche 936 ever raced with those mesh wheels during 1976, in fact the five spoke design which Spirit has supplied is very close in appearance to the five spoke BBS wheels that Porsche used on the 936s in 1976. From 1977 all 936s had wheel covers so the actual dsign of those wheels is in some question.


    Nurburgring 1976 practice.
    Note the low rear wing and
    five spoke wheels.
    Photo by: Paul Kooyman
    www.racingsportscars.com


    Sure the driver looks kinda nuts. But at least
    the helmet is correct for Mr. Stommelen.
    Oh....that face shield....hmmph.


    Sure the roll protection looks like it was welded by someone who had
    no idea what or why they were welding. But that's only a problem on the
    black car. Unless of course Spirit chooses to model the #18 car as this
    particular chassis was run at the '76 LeMans race where it retired
    during the 16th hour. After those two races this particular chassis 936-001
    was used only for testing until the 1977 LeMans race, which it and Jurgen
    Barth/Hurley Haywood/Jackie Ickx won, by which time it too had acquired
    the air scoop. By the by that air scoop and on this particular 936 the
    hump just back of the engine cooling fan encloses the intercooler
    through which air is run for cooling purposes before going to the
    turbocharger and thence to engine itself.



    Mirrors certainly could use some help.


    To my eye this shows someone was paying no attention. Or, and this is the case even if said person was paying attention, the car at which the model maker was looking had been changed since 1976. The two inboard taillights are more or less correct. Those big red outboard screens with the two little lenses are not correct. Those should be simple screens of no particular color, being outlets from which air is to escape.





    As near as I can tell all the appropriate markings are there. The 'Martini' stripes atop Spirit's Porsche 936 are correctly sized the only fault I can find with them is under the #1. The blue is not visible but the 'stripes' certainly are. The stripes down the sides of the car.........fault can be easily found there. The red stripe should be completely above the rear wheel arch. Me thinks the rear arch is too tall.......
    Last edited by monquispot; 11-28-2007, 04:20 PM.

  • #2
    ........and certainly the stripes down the sides are too . . .wide. Of the sponsor markings the only 'fault' I see is the large size of the 'Goodyear's just behind the rear wheels.



    Dashboard looks complete and is reasonably
    well detailed. Again the 1:1 car today is much
    changed from 1976 so there's a good
    possibility that one of the principals from
    1976 would be able to point out errors
    in what Spirit has done here.

    Underneath looks and is pretty much standard
    for the industry. Some drivetrain detail that's
    about right for '76 with the one turbo charger.


    Poor Mr. Stommelen has no lower legs. Not sure how he managed the clutch..... The cockpit is glued to the chassis, even so it is possible to see the reinforcing Xs that Spirit has cast as part of the chassis and those Xs do make for a solid platform. Notice the four axle adjustment setscrews........ The magnet is very thin. On my Magnet Marshall it registered a 47, too little be of any real use but.......more on that later. The motor leads were both poorly soldered, one not at all.......



    The parts. The spur gear is Nylon and uses a setscrew, gearing is 12/32. Care should be taken when tightening that setscrew. Note the axle bushings fit the chassis small flange in. Otherwise fitting the motor...........well good luck. Oh....the axle/bushing interface is nice and snug w/out being tight. The plastic wheels certainly are not perfectly true/round but are correctly sized. Rear tires slip on their wheels. Re the motor: nothing special and a very loose fit. Shoe Goo to the rescue. Not sure of the exact specs bit it drives much like your standard Scalex/FLY motor. Brake rotors are a nice touch but if you want the 'look' you'll need to sand down the grooves and repaint. Those rotors fit snug enough that if you were to crack a wheel hub the rotor itself could be used as the repair sleeve.

    Spirit Porsche 936 dimensions

    Length: 134mm x 32= 4288mm / 1:1 car 4250mm
    Width: 59.8mm x 32= 1914mm / 1:1 car 1981mm This may well be another example of what happens to race cars over their lifetime. It is certain that chassis, 936-001, and chassis 936-002 were narrowed prior to the beginning of the '77 race season, Porsche having decided to concentrate solely on LeMans where a smaller frontal area would give a higher top speed. All the subsequent 936s were built with the narrower width. I have been unsuccesful in attempts to find the exact width of the '77 and susequent cars.
    Height: wing endplate 33.8mm x 32= 1282mm / rollbar 32mm x 32= 1024mm / 1:1 car 1021mm It may well be that my numbers for the 1:1 car are from before the rear wing was raised.
    Wheelbase: 75mm x 32= 2400mm / 1:1 car 2400mm

    Spirit got it pretty close. The front of the model is blunt when compared to the original from '76 but......if the Spirit modeler was looking at the car as it is today.........

    To the track. Thanks to Clark Mossman (Slawtoe) for the use of his shop Scaly Sport track. Thanks to Alan and Paul for the use of the wood track at 132slotcar.

    Sport track first:
    Out of the box and oiled. 8.162 sec. Can hear the out of roundedness of those wheels so a few minutes with a wood block, 12 volts and some sandpaper and.....7.242 seconds. The tires are OK but don't have much grip and the magnet is not of much help at this point.

    For comparison.........well there's not much Gp.6 competition out there. FLY Porsche 908-3 if you're willing to do the work to make that model of the '71 car look as it did in '76. LeMans Miniatures has the Reanault A442b which could easily be converted to standard A442. But in Gp.5......which were on the track at the same time.... Ok. FLY Porsche 934: 6.085 sec. Monogram Greenwood Corvette: 5.601 sec. FLY BMW CSL: 5.87 sec. All those Gp.5 machines run stock....period. All those Gp.5 machines carry much more magnet than does the Spirit Porsche 936 so.........add some magnet. I simply dropped a fat round FLY magnet atop the stock Spirit magnet and.......5.741 seconds. Easy.

    The only 'performance' related issues I had with this car in stock form were related to the wheels being wobbly on their axles. No tire rub. Guide fit is snug. Setscrew for the spur gear uses M2, .95mm, allen wrench.

    To 132slotcar for some no magnet wood track running.
    On this track a very well tuned car will see 5.5 seconds in lane four, of eight. Now and then.
    So I wasn't overly disappointed when this Spirit Porsche 936, with trued stock tires, only went 7.6 seconds. Didn't expect the tires would work very well here and your results may vary.
    Knowing the stock wheels to be untrue I chose to replace them with 17x8mm magnesium Slot.It rims with Slot.It S2 compound tires. This combination has an overall diameter that's very close to that of the stock tires.

    6.2 seconds and obviously in need of more motor. Out comes a 21.5K rpm Slot.It motor. And down come the lap times. To the high mid fives. Oh....that would be 5.865 sec. So.....a small amound of lead atop the motor and......5.745 seconds. I have no doubt there's more to be had as there's plenty of room for weight between the cockpit and the motor and atop the motor. I did try loosening the body mount screws to no real effect.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    If you've been wanting a Porsche 936............
    If you have one of the MRRC models and wondered when............
    Then Spirit's model may well be what you've been waiting for. If the cosmetic faults of this particular version of the car make it unappealing.......then look to the white #20 car.
    Last edited by Scaleracing; 11-29-2007, 08:01 PM. Reason: Checking on photo's they all show here.

    Comment


    • #3
      Well, that explains why the wing has always looked too tall for the car to me, like it was an afterthought. Apparently it was an afterthought, thank you Renault for ruining what might have been a decent looking car.

      Comment


      • #4
        Taking note...

        Thank you for your review. We are taking note of every aspect you mention to make it better in next releases.

        In spite of we have a good documentary man, he's not perfect and must work harder to reach the detail reproduction levels that you, our clients, demand us.

        Best regards.

        Comment


        • #5
          You have excelled yourself

          Monquispot. That is such an informing and entertaining story about the history of the development of this car. And as Bluetoes said, no wonder the wing looks like an afterthought. It's an ugly brute of a car, but one I am very glad Spirit have released.

          Spirit - it is also very good to see criticism of a model received positively.

          Around the world we have so many enthusiasts of motor racing who also race slot cars, like Monquispot; and who can add valuable historical detail to the development of slot models. I just wish makers could find a way to "co-opt" a few of these people onto their design teams at the development stages of the moulding and detailing of the cars.

          Comment


          • #6
            Thanks as well for the lively history of this car, Scott! Thanks as well to Spirit for this release. I'm looking forward to getting some track time with mine.

            Van

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: 936

              I got both the Black car & the white car (O.K. actually I got 2 of each! ); I opened the black car sanded the tires & put it on the track, where it ran like stink! I finally opened one of the white cars yesterday while on break at work with screw driver & a little lead in hand. Wow! What a difference, I had heard some complaints, but I had no idea? Front axle was too long & both front wheels rubbed the body work, back wheels rub as well! Generally the whole car does not seem nearly as well executed as the black one! I find this strange; I would think that the 2 would be almost identical except for the minor body differences!?!? Please discuss!!

              While I am at it, Has spirit come up with front tires for the BMW 1600 that actually fit? Where to get? What aftermarket tire to use?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by monquispot View Post
                After the one race this particular chassis 936-001 was used
                only for testing until 1977 by which time it too had acquired the air scoop.
                I wanted to mention that 936.001 once again appeared during the 1976 season at the LeMans 24 hours contest.

                It was classified 33rd/DNF driven by Reinhold Jöst and Jürgen Barth.

                It appeared in "non-airbox" specification similar to the Dijon '76 version (next version from Spirit), but with graphics more like the 936-002 but numbered 18.



                I do hope that this version is slated for production by Spirit sometime in the near future.

                936-001 would go on to win the 1977 LeMans 24 hours at the hands of Jürgen Barth, Hurley Haywood and Jacky Ickx (sporting new long-tail bodywork of course). 001 continued to race until 1981 where it finished 12th at LeMans.

                936-001 is the only factory built 936 that is privately owned. It was spotted at the 2002 Hillsborough Concours sporting its 1981 "Jules" LeMans Livery and SERA bodywork.

                Last edited by MG Brown; 11-28-2007, 12:34 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Honestly, I would prefer a 936 revision with a boxer motor over a more '"correct" car anyday. I buy these cars to race, not sit on a shelf in the living room, and I currently have one of each livery- in fact my Spirit collection isnt bad at all:
                  -512 Tergal,
                  -2 936 both current release
                  -4 Reynard 2KQ's- three of which are "sport" models and only one of which is a "Standard" model
                  -2 Dallaras- both Sports
                  -2 Renault R5
                  -1 Puegeot 206
                  -1 406 sedan
                  -1 406 Silhouette
                  -1 BMW 2002
                  -1 Courage LMP

                  An anglewinder boxer 936 would be awesome, but I would be estatic over a simple inline boxer! I love Spirit cars and I have to say the cars have come a long way from the days when I got my first 2KQ and the wheels came off during a race and the motor smoked two races later! When I got my 406 sedan I pulled the mag, dropped it on the track and placed second in that nights touring car race! My White 936 required only a bit of tire sanding to be smooth as silk on my wood track, and if the motor was stronger (it had "gone soft" on the third lap and hasnt been the same since) I honestly feel I would have been able to beat several well-tuned Fly 908's with the car as it was out of the box! Outstanding work!



                  Originally posted by SpiritHobbyModels View Post
                  Thank you for your review. We are taking note of every aspect you mention to make it better in next releases.

                  In spite of we have a good documentary man, he's not perfect and must work harder to reach the detail reproduction levels that you, our clients, demand us.

                  Best regards.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by masmojo View Post
                    I got both the Black car & the white car (O.K. actually I got 2 of each! ); I opened the black car sanded the tires & put it on the track, where it ran like stink! I finally opened one of the white cars yesterday while on break at work with screw driver & a little lead in hand. Wow! What a difference, I had heard some complaints, but I had no idea? Front axle was too long & both front wheels rubbed the body work, back wheels rub as well! Generally the whole car does not seem nearly as well executed as the black one! I find this strange; I would think that the 2 would be almost identical except for the minor body differences!?!? Please discuss!!

                    While I am at it, Has spirit come up with front tires for the BMW 1600 that actually fit? Where to get? What aftermarket tire to use?
                    Actually, my black car had the same tire rub issues. The rear axle needed to be shortened. Ditto r.e. the BMW tire question. The tires are a poor fit on both cars that I own.

                    If Spirit can take care of these QC issues they will sell more cars. If a benchmark is needed for comparison, think Scalextric. Their cars always run great out of the box. Not all collectors will take the time to fix a car that doesn't run well out of the box. They will just give up and will be left with a bad feeling having spent money on something that does not work as it should when brand new.

                    Improve the quality of assembly, and keep on releasing cars from the 70's, please - and I wll keep buying Spirit cars.

                    Sorry for the threadjack, Scott. Looking forward to the rest of your review.

                    Van
                    Last edited by dr vanski; 11-28-2007, 11:35 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by SlotsNZ View Post
                      Around the world we have so many enthusiasts of motor racing who also race slot cars, like Monquispot; and who can add valuable historical detail to the development of slot models. I just wish makers could find a way to "co-opt" a few of these people onto their design teams at the development stages of the moulding and detailing of the cars.

                      I must quietly dis-agree. While I like the cars to look scale, I am overtired of spending ever-larger amounts of money for each car because the manufacturer must spend more and more money to make the cars more and more detailed. I love ninco cars because while they look the part they arent afraid to use a tray interior to leave room for weight, larger motors, etc. that the car needs to perform on the track and at the same time keep the cost down, or at least put the money into better parts. The Ninco Vortrom I bought yesterday is a prime example- about $75.00, comes with stright axles, sticky tires, set screw wheels at all four corners, NC-6 motor, set screw gears and ball bearings for the rear axle.Or take the Spirit 2KQ Telefonica I bought for $60.00- Boxer motor, setscrew wheels and crown, boxer motor, straight axles, brass bushings, and decent tires. Compare those to the Fly M1 I bought for $65.00 which is a wonderful scale model, but has mediocre tires, loads of axle slop, 18k motor and plastic crown/wheels/bushings, hops all over the place, and will require a lot of tuning to be "great". Now if I had payed $45 for the Fly I wouldnt care very much and could see the difference in value, but honestly $5-10 difference in price is not a large gap, and Im not certian the extra detail the Fly car has is worth it over the Spirits, Slot.its, and Nincos out there.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by DWalker View Post
                        I must quietly dis-agree. While I like the cars to look scale, I am overtired of spending ever-larger amounts of money for each car because the manufacturer must spend more and more money to make the cars more and more detailed. I love ninco cars because while they look the part they arent afraid to use a tray interior to leave room for weight, larger motors, etc. that the car needs to perform on the track and at the same time keep the cost down, or at least put the money into better parts. The Ninco Vortrom I bought yesterday is a prime example- about $75.00, comes with stright axles, sticky tires, set screw wheels at all four corners, NC-6 motor, set screw gears and ball bearings for the rear axle.Or take the Spirit 2KQ Telefonica I bought for $60.00- Boxer motor, setscrew wheels and crown, boxer motor, straight axles, brass bushings, and decent tires. Compare those to the Fly M1 I bought for $65.00 which is a wonderful scale model, but has mediocre tires, loads of axle slop, 18k motor and plastic crown/wheels/bushings, hops all over the place, and will require a lot of tuning to be "great". Now if I had payed $45 for the Fly I wouldnt care very much and could see the difference in value, but honestly $5-10 difference in price is not a large gap, and Im not certian the extra detail the Fly car has is worth it over the Spirits, Slot.its, and Nincos out there.
                        I will disagree back... Is it too much to ask that they do it right and keep the price the same? The effort put into doing some of the cars as wrong as they have been done in the past often surpasses the effort it would have taken to do the cars correctly.

                        I do not understand how there can be such discrepancies when it comes to modeling a car that already exists, has extensive documentation, and would take nothing more than a quick trip to a vintage race to verify the numbers (or even a phone call to the current owner -- I have found that most owners LOVE to talk about their cars...). The Rennsport III reunion was a great example. I talked to numerous people who own some of the most famous racers in history and they enjoyed talking about the cars as much as I enjoyed seeing them there.

                        Math is math. 3/8" = 1' in 32nd scale. That being the case, why do the Fly GT40s look any different that the Scaley versions if they are both done correctly? One may say it is artistic license, but in reality, they are both close, but not really that accurate. Everyone raves about Slot.It cars because they do a heck of a job getting their cars right and still keep the prices reasonable. Why is it so hard for EVERYONE to do that?

                        I think Spirit has a lot of work to do to get their cars on par with what is currently available. The car has a very cheap look to it and obviously glaring errors to anyone who is a Porsche-file.

                        That said, I am VERY impressed that they actually are paying attention to their customers in forums such as this and I have a feeling that it will pay off in the long run for both them and us. They will know exactly what the customers are complaining about and we will benefit because they are, from the sound of it, going to work on improving their processes to bring us better products.

                        I, for one, will be buying their products just because I want them to succeed if they are going to do business that way. If it gets better, then I have the satisfaction in knowing my dollars helped them get better. If they don't, then I stop buying eventually and they will go away because they do not make a product worth buying.

                        Customer service is a joke these days and it seems to be getting worse at every turn. Therefore, when a company pokes their head above the rest and says "We will do better... what do you want?" I will watch and see what happens and support them however I can.

                        It doesn't cost any more to do a car right than it does to do it wrong. In some cases, it costs MORE to do it wrong.

                        jg

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          "I wanted to mention that 936.001 once again appeared during the 1976 season at the LeMans 24 hours contest.
                          It was classified 33rd/DNF driven by Reinhold Jöst and Jürgen Barth."

                          Absolutely correct. I have made the correction is my original post.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            My point was in regard to acheiving historical accuracy

                            Originally posted by DWalker View Post
                            I must quietly dis-agree. While I like the cars to look scale, I am overtired of spending ever-larger amounts of money for each car because the manufacturer must spend more and more money to make the cars more and more detailed. I love ninco cars because while they look the part they arent afraid to use a tray interior to leave room for weight, larger motors, etc. that the car needs to perform on the track and at the same time keep the cost down, or at least put the money into better parts. The Ninco Vortrom I bought yesterday is a prime example- about $75.00, comes with stright axles, sticky tires, set screw wheels at all four corners, NC-6 motor, set screw gears and ball bearings for the rear axle.Or take the Spirit 2KQ Telefonica I bought for $60.00- Boxer motor, setscrew wheels and crown, boxer motor, straight axles, brass bushings, and decent tires. Compare those to the Fly M1 I bought for $65.00 which is a wonderful scale model, but has mediocre tires, loads of axle slop, 18k motor and plastic crown/wheels/bushings, hops all over the place, and will require a lot of tuning to be "great". Now if I had payed $45 for the Fly I wouldnt care very much and could see the difference in value, but honestly $5-10 difference in price is not a large gap, and Im not certian the extra detail the Fly car has is worth it over the Spirits, Slot.its, and Nincos out there.
                            Since this was what had been raised by Monquispot when he opened this thread, nothing to do with a level of detail or a level of cost.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I'm just grateful that Spirit modeled this car. The 936 has been missing for a long, long time.

                              Comment

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