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Vintage Group C Challenge 2010 Rules

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  • Vintage Group C Challenge 2010 Rules

    Ladies and Gentlemen
    WELCOME TO THE VINTAGE GROUP C CHALLENGE 2010 SEASON!

    WARNING!!! THESE RULES ARE STILL IN DEVELOPMENT!!! ITEMS IN RED ARE STILL SOMEWHAT OPEN FOR DISCUSSION.

    Purpose:
    A series to race Group C prototype racers using a stable format which still allows for continuous development and promote a high level of competition.


    General Rules

    All cars will be sent into race central for tech inspection, where they will be inspected for compliance and run to test function. Any issues or defects will be reported to the entrant and addressed before the first round. If a car arrives at the first track which cannot be raced (due to poor construction, or illegal parts or modifications) the car will not be raced until it is repaired to run or pass inspection. Owner must send replacement parts for the car to be repaired or it is sent home for repair and can be returned to race again. All costs of parts and return shipping to be paid by owner.
    If gear teeth strip, guide mount breaks or any other chassis or body breakage occurs which keeps the car from competing during a race the entrant will be given the choice that the car can be repaired by the track host or sent home to owner for repairs. Repairing the car cannot hold up the running of the race regardless. Should a car breakdown after the race begins, it will lose any remaining race time until it is repaired and ready to race again. Although repairs are permitted, cars will not be tuned or adjusted on any of the tracks, except to allow them to run. Cars will run with original tires as entered.
    Non-Slot.it parts allowed for this series include: lead weight, body screws, pod screws, axle shims, guide spacers, machine screws/nuts/washers and grub screws. Metal, PCB, or carbon fiber are allowed and can be applied as per Chassis rule #6 only. Any form of glue, epoxy and tape may be used to secure motor to pod or lead weight to chassis/body, tires to wheels and other areas where these materials can be used.
    Late entries will be penalized 1 lap for each day late after start date of the series.
    Only one entry per person will be accepted.
    ENTRYFEES and prizes have yet to be determined.

    Car Rules
    Entrants are to be Group C cars only. List of eligible cars are as follows;
    Mazda 787
    Porsche 956/956KH
    Porsche 962
    Lancia LC2
    Sauber C9
    Jaguar XJR

    Body Rules
    1.) Interior of body may be relieved to allow for clearence of tires and chassis as long as alterations are not visible from the exterior. Wheel openings may not be enlarged.
    2.) Driver interiors may be sanded or ground to allow for clearence of the motor pod. Modifications to driver interiors should not be visible when viewed from the outside of the car looking in through windshield/sideglass.
    3.) Slot.it vac formed interiors are allowed only for the specific car they were made for.
    4.) Bodies must be removable to allow for inspection prior to race.
    5.) Body may be repainted.
    6.) Fantasy or actual liveries are permitted.
    7.) Racing numbers are required on both sides and front end.
    8.) Car owners name and body/pod screw adjustment information on car underside is recommended.
    9.) Headlights and tail lights are required, but are not required to actually illuminate.
    10.) Rear wing is required if the car originally had one and must in place during the series.
    11.) Lead weight can be added anywhere inside the car body.

    Chassis
    1.) Standard Chassis main plate only. No HRS/HRS 2 allowed. Chassis must match body type, adding a replacement A.W. chassis is acceptable as long as it is specific to body type used.
    2.) Chassis main plate must be one piece between the axles.
    3.) Any Slot.it motor pod is permitted.
    4.) Sanding of the motor pod and chassis to allow motor pod/body movement is permitted. These are the only chassis modifications allowed except for reinforcing the guide as in rule #6.
    5.) Lead weight is allowed any where on top side of the chassis.
    6.) Reinforcing the guide post is permitted with the use of metal, PCB, or carbon fiber as long as fabrication does not exceed 1” (25mm) in any direction.
    Another reason for this rule is to permit the reuse of a chassis that has had the guide holder broke and repaired.
    7.) Any Slot.it guide is permitted with the depth set at 5.2mm clearance as on Scaley Sport track.
    8.) Slot.it braid only.
    9.) Any gear ratio is permitted using Slot.it parts.
    10.) Slot.it hollow axle is permitted.
    11.) Slot.it magnetic and spring suspensions are permitted.
    12.) No traction magnets allowed.

    Motors
    1.) Any Slot.it motor is permitted.
    2.) Slot.it motors can be run-in prior to race.
    3.) No changes or modifications to motors are permitted.
    4.) Lead weight placed on motor is permitted.
    5.) Motor shaft can be trimmed for tire clearance.

    Tires and wheels
    1.) Non-Slot.it wheels not allowed
    2.) No Slot.it “F1” size rear wheels (scale13-14”diameter) allowed.
    3.) Ultra-Low profile zero grips are not allowed.
    4.) Tire compound is restricted only to current the commercially available tire compounds listed. No chemical treatments, oils (as in the case of the NSR tires), etc. are permitted.
    5.) Front and rear tires must be completely under the body when viewed from above.
    6.) All Slot.it wheels must be covered with a Slot.it wheel insert.
    7.) Clear finger nail polish can be used on the front tires.




    PENALTIES:
    • Late arrival to tech: 1 lap per day late
    • Tech/rules infractions: 5 laps per item
    Race Sponsorship, prizes, hosts, entry fees, and event schedule is forthcoming.
    Last edited by DWalker; 12-30-2009, 07:56 AM.

  • #2
    NEWS:

    Several tracks have agreed to host this august series. Hosts are still needed, and anyone wishing to host a round in this series please feel free to email me at [email protected]

    The Challenge has new Sponsors, which will be announced in the near future.

    Entry fees are set at $25.00.

    Entrants can post here, email me at the above address, or PM me.

    Comment


    • #3
      What tires? The wording is unclear. I could go with Super Tires or S2's, no problem either way, but if they are ST's, I've got to start my truing early!

      Comment


      • #4
        Robert the tires are only restricted to those CURRENTLYcommercially available- Sorrry I forgot to post the list. The list I have (Others please feel free to point out if I miss something)

        BRM
        Indy Grips
        KD
        MaxxTrac
        Ninco
        NSR
        Supertires
        Yellowdogs
        Slot.it


        Im sure I missed a few, a lot of tires fit Slot.it wheels, but this should be the most popular tires on the list.

        Comment


        • #5
          I'll have to wait until the track descriptions are posted to decide on tires. But I do have a car for this race and I am interested in entering (upgraded early Sauber with SW, all parts hand fitted, completely illegal for that other race).

          Comment


          • #6
            Excellent Robert, glad to have you!

            Comment


            • #7
              Just a thought on one worm-can

              There are a lot of small makers of urethane tyres out there.
              Best known of course, Ortmanns. But there is also Kelly's "Kelmac" tyres - pretty well known on SCI forum. [or is that "KD"? ]
              - In Australia there is MJK (and you may very well get Australian entrants)
              - In NZ there are SRS Grips
              - oh and Canada - Luf's Urethanes and Paul whats-his-name that sells tyres and kits for home-bake; I'd better stop . . before I think of more. . . . . all "currently commercially available",
              But you get the idea. If you have a mix of track surfaces, these may be an attractive option for some entrants. So I think you probably need a definitive list of approved makers, and close it at that point to avoid arguments like:
              "mine ARE commercially available, I made 3 extra pairs and sold them to a guy at club" LOL

              Originally posted by DWalker View Post
              Robert the tires are only restricted to those CURRENTLYcommercially available- Sorrry I forgot to post the list. The list I have (Others please feel free to point out if I miss something)

              BRM
              Indy Grips
              KD
              MaxxTrac
              Ninco
              NSR
              Supertires
              Yellowdogs
              Slot.it


              Im sure I missed a few, a lot of tires fit Slot.it wheels, but this should be the most popular tires on the list.

              Comment


              • #8
                Thans for your input!

                Yes, I am aware of the small runs of home- or near home-made tires, and heres my take on it-
                The rules intent is to allow in other manufacturers tires, not to allow in limited run or homebrews. So if its not available to anyone who wishes to enter, then its not allowed in. Ortmanns are tricky, because there is no real way to test new vs old (which are NLA, and therefore against the rules) and so I would prefer to not allow them at all.

                MJK tires are OK, since AFAIK if I really wanted to I could get a set.

                Be aware that tire choice should be based on the tracks in the series and whats worked in the past, not nec what works on your home track.

                I am working on an idea to help with the wheel/tire issues, and will post up when/if I have more.

                Cheers,
                Don

                Originally posted by SlotsNZ View Post
                There are a lot of small makers of urethane tyres out there.
                Best known of course, Ortmanns. But there is also Kelly's "Kelmac" tyres - pretty well known on SCI forum. [or is that "KD"? ]
                - In Australia there is MJK (and you may very well get Australian entrants)
                - In NZ there are SRS Grips
                - oh and Canada - Luf's Urethanes and Paul whats-his-name that sells tyres and kits for home-bake; I'd better stop . . before I think of more. . . . . all "currently commercially available",
                But you get the idea. If you have a mix of track surfaces, these may be an attractive option for some entrants. So I think you probably need a definitive list of approved makers, and close it at that point to avoid arguments like:
                "mine ARE commercially available, I made 3 extra pairs and sold them to a guy at club" LOL

                Comment


                • #9
                  I will be entering my "Spirt of America"Porsche with it's "slightly modified" Slot-it parts

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Excellent Dave! Glad to have you and look forward to the round on your track!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Slot.it Sauber Motor Upgrade

                      One of my fully illegal Saubers is getting an upgrade. A 25k slim can adapted to a dropped SW pod works well, with the customary illegal filing. The pod wouldn't even fit in the chassis cutout without it. Using non-Slot.It springs on magnetic suspension Slot.It screws, chassis twist is optimized. CG is lower than is possible with the antique motors Slot.It uses. Too bad Maurizio is biased against slim cans. He came on SCI one time and said they cannot produce enough torque because the slots in the armature can't accomodate enough copper. But, I know he has a torque tester, and I know you can get 150 gcm out of these things. How much do you need? OK, back to the land of outlaws . . . too bad there is no place to race modified Group C cars.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        More is better, too much is just right!!

                        Originally posted by Robert Livingston View Post
                        and I know you can get 150 gcm out of these things. How much do you need?



                        To many V-8s in my past to not like a nice flat torque curve.

                        Smoke 'em!
                        Paul

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Go ahead, get the little boy with the calculator to plot the torque curve. I guarantee it is a straight line! Max torque at stall, dropping to zero at max RPM. Every electric motor is like that. What differs is the torque at wheelspin as you exit a corner. The long cans develop more torque than the slim cans, no doubt, but if you read through previous Shoot-Out results, there have been decidedly dismal results from the cars with long cans, mostly due to inadvertent applications of nut-busting torque in the corners, where high torque is not needed or wanted. Smooth cornering requires no more torque than what an orange endbell develops. The slim cans are marginally weaker, but not as weak as the old white endbell 25k, the previous standard Slot.It motor. Go ahead, ask the boy.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Hi Robert,

                            I said flat, not straight. I understand engines and motors thank you. The little boy is my son.

                            Paul

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              The slim line motor, what a waste.

                              That motor is the reason why I will not even consider buying any number of cars. And it is not the motor performance, it is the mismatched motor/gears/car that Scalextric, MRRC, Monogram and others use.

                              Also no gears to fit on this motor make it unusable, imo

                              Comment

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