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  • T man
    started a topic No Magnet Racing at Ace Hobby

    No Magnet Racing at Ace Hobby

    Updates to Ace Hobby no magnet racing rules.
    022418 - Trans Am class rules added to "Friday Night Racing Rules". (3D printed chassis, & moveable pods.)

    Race Format (for Monday Night, no magnet Racing)
    - Odd numbered days of the month, the classes raced will be: DP / Scalextric GT, GT (GT2, GTA, & GT1), and LMP.
    - Even numbered days of the month, the classes raced will be: Can Am, Group C2, and LMP.

    Where the rules are found:

    In this post (post #1, of this thread), are rules for Monday night no magnet racing, for the following: General Rules (for all classes)
    Slot-It Group C2
    Can Am
    Daytona Prototype (DP)

    Due to content quantity constraints, more class rules will be found in the next post (post #2, of this thread). The title says "Monday 10/4 race results...". I couldn't change it. BUT, more rules are there!

    General Rules (for all classes):

    1. Any controller that does not store power or provide external power to the car may be used. The track is wired Positive gate.

    2. Only the edges of the chassis, body, interior, & pod may be sanded to allow for body & pod movement. No more than .020” (20 thousandths in.) of material may be removed. Excessive removal of material is not allowed.

    3. The interior (cockpit) may be sanded / modified, if necessary, to clear the pod, motor, & motor shaft; to allow for the routing of lead wires, or to allow for body / chassis movement. Excessive removal of material is not allowed. The chassis, or lead wires, should NOT be visible when looking into the cockpit.

    4. Lexan, vacuum, or tray interiors are only permitted in some classes, & if allowed, will be specifically mentioned in the rules for those classes. All of these type interiors must show a driver (shoulders up), steering wheel, seat, & dashboard; and must be painted in four colors in addition to black.

    5. All bodies must display (at least) 3 racing numbers (decals are nice, too), include the stock (or stock appearing) interior, [which includes a driver, seat, steering wheel, & dashboard], & have all appropriate glass. Lexan interiors, windows, etc. are NOT allowed unless the car was so equipped by the manufacturer. Wheel well flaring or enlarging is NOT allowed. Spacers may be added to the body mounting posts. The posts may NOT be shortened, but may be reinforced.

    6. Original (or original appearing) wings must be present at tech, & for the start of the first heat.

    7. Stock, or equivalent (screw top, etc.) guides will be used; spacers are allowed. Replacement brass plate, or plastic guide holders (B-Nova, etc.) may be used, to repair or resize the guide holder. No restrictions on braid, or lead wires.

    8. Magnetic or spring suspensions are NOT allowed unless the car was so equipped by the mfr..

    9. All motors must be stock, & may NOT be modified. Motors with signs of tampering will be banned. Any motor that shows signs of being opened is banned. Tabs on motor cans must not be covered. Technical director may inspect any motor, at any time.

    10. Motors must be for the pod used, unless specifically allowed in the class rules. Motors may be glued to the pod, or affixed with screws, if screw holes are present in the pod. Pinions may be soldered, glued or pressed on. Motor shaft may be shortened, & spacers used to locate the axle, gear, & wheels.

    11. Minimum clearance of .032" between the chassis & tech block, is required, with all four wheels resting on the block. The axle gear must clear by .015". If the chassis, body or gear contacts the track during the race the car will be black flagged.

    12. Any aftermarket rear bushing, sold by Ace Hobby, may be used, & may be glued in place. Ball bearings are not allowed.

    13. No weight may be added, except for the purpose of meeting the required minimum for a particular class. Weight may NOT be secured to the bottom of the chassis / pod.

    14. Any rear wheel & silicon tire sold at Ace Hobby is allowed. F1 wheels & tires are NOT allowed. Tires may be glued to the wheels, & trued.

    15 Any front wheel & tire sold at Ace Hobby is allowed. Front tires may NOT be glued, painted, etc. to reduce traction.

    16. All four wheels must have full inserts, unless using detailed, mag-type wheels.

    17. Tires & wheels may NOT extend beyond the body (wheel well), when viewed from above.

    18. Hollow axles, or independently rotating front axles / wheels, are NOT allowed, unless the car was so equipped by the manufacturer.

    19. 3D printed chassis may be used in all classes. Every attempt must be made to use / modify the stock interior.

    20. Allowed motors will be listed in the rules for each specific class.

    21. “Scratch built” chassis (example: brass pan, wire or tube frame, circuit board, etc.) may NOT be used; unless specifically allowed in the particular class rules.

    TECH RULES:
    1. Car will be presented race ready and conforming to the rules!
    2. Cars with minor problems will be corrected during tech.
    3. Cars that are obviously non-conforming will be rejected. If you are not sure, ask for a pre-tech. look before tech. opens.
    4. Car will be placed on a flat set-up block, and checked for chassis & gear clearance. Front tires touching and rolling. From directly overhead, tires must not extend beyond widest point of the fender.
    5. ID motor. Check for allowed motors.
    6. All cars passing tech. will be placed into the PIT BOX and may NOT be removed before rotation begins, & will be placed back into the box in between heats.
    7. Any and all cars may be re-tech’ed at the end of the race.

    RACE PROCEDURE:
    1. Drivers of tech'ed cars will collect lane stickers for their rotation.
    2. Race Director will load names into the race program and set the grid.
    3. RD will release the starting grid from the pit box, drivers will apply stickers and place cars on starting grid and go to driver stations.
    4. RD will start Auto Race Program and race will start.
    5. At the end of the heat, the RD will release the next car in rotation. The driver will ready the car, place it at the starting line and go to the driver station.
    a. In the 90 second period between heats, drivers in rotation may groom/clean braids, clean tires, adjust body and pod screws only.
    b. The car rotating off the track must be back in the pit box before the start of the next heat.
    c. Drivers are encouraged to use "lane reminders" for re-spotting their cars. If you forget, you will restart from the start line and lose track position.
    d. At the end of a 4 heat rotation, the driver will inform the RD of his/her stopping point; it is the driver’s responsibility to see that it was recorded. If you fail, you will be assigned .02 stopping point.

    GREEN FLAG REPAIRS (regular no magnet races, on a typical Monday evening):
    Race director may allow "mercy repairs" between heats, when track power is down.
    Race director may allow for a short delay, during (via a "track" call) +/or in between heats, to complete "mercy repairs". Or, for the racer to substitute a replacement car, & continue racing.

    GREEN FLAG REPAIRS (races with cash prizes, or special series for championships, etc.).
    Other than grooming/cleaning braids, cleaning tires and adjusting body and pod screws, all other repairs must be done when your car is in rotation and the track is powered up. Remember, no work is to be done when power to the track is off. You will receive only one warning.

    In order to support our local hobby shop, every attempt should be made to purchase the car, body, components, and so on, from Ace Hobby. Maximum use of parts / components purchased at Ace would be hoped for.

    Every attempt will be made to have FUN, while enjoying close, competitive racing.


    Slot-It Group C2 Rules (revised 2/8/16)

    Any inline Slot-It Group C2 car (no magnet, 11 volts); Audi R8 is NOT allowed in Group C2.

    1. Essentially “Box Stock”, limited modifications allowed, as specified.
    2. No more than a 0.5 mm offset inline pod may be used, (end bell drive only).
    3. Orange end bell (21.5k or 23k), Piranha (21.5k), NSR Shark (20k or 22k), Thunderslot (21.5k), motors only.
    4. Gears: stock 9 tooth pinion, any (Slot-It, or NSR) inline crown gear
    5. No HRS chassis. Weight may NOT be added.
    6. Cars must have appropriate body/chassis. Porsche 956C must have Porsche 956C chassis, etc..
    7. All other "General Rules" apply.


    Can Am Rules (revised 9/10/16)

    A replica of a car raced in the SCCA Can Am series, from 1969 - 1974, using a sidewinder chassis, (no magnet, 11 volts).

    Beginning 9/10/16, the previous 3 “sub-classes” of cars (S, N, & H) will now run together; they are combined into one Can Am class. One set of race results will be reported.

    1. Essentially “box stock”, with limited modifications, as specified.
    2. Slot-It, Fly, etc., cars using a single mfr’s. body chassis, & no more than a 0.5mm offset sw’er pod.
    3. NSR cars using NSR sidewinder pods; and Thunderslot cars using stock, or NSR, s/w’er pods.
    4. Hybrid cars using one manufacturer’s body, on another manufacturer’s chassis +/or components.
    E.g.: Fly body with Slot-It chassis & pod, Scalextric body with replacement 3D printed chassis. No more than a 0.5mm offset pod may be used. Vacuum formed, or tray type interiors may be used, if necessary, only if the body’s stock interior will not fit.
    5. Orange end bell (21.5k or 23k), Piranha (21.5k), NSR Shark (20k, 21.9k EVO, or 22k), Thunderslot (21.5k), motors only.
    6. All cars must weigh 70 grams minimum.
    7. Gearing is open.
    8. All other “General Rules” apply.


    Daytona Prototype (DP) Rules (revised 2/8/16)

    Inline DP cars, Sideways Racer, Fly, etc. (no magnet, 11 volts):

    1. Essentially “Box Stock”, with limited modifications allowed, as specified.
    2. No weight may be added.
    3. Sideways Racer cars:
    - Motor: Orange end bell (21.5k or 23k), Piranha (21.5k), NSR Shark (20k or 22k), Thunderslot (21.5k), motors only.
    - Motor pod: Stock (grey, 1 mm offset Slot-It pod, (end bell drive only).
    - Gears: Stock Slot-It pinions and (offset) crown gears, 9/26 gear ratio.
    4. Fly cars:
    - Motor: Must use a Fly DP motor. Different stock motors; gears (see below) even them out.
    - Motor pod: Must use stock Fly motor pod.
    - Gears: May use replacement gears. 10 t. pinion. Rileys 10/24, & Dorans 10/25.
    5. May use, or not use, the stock chassis re-enforcing “X” shaped piece on Sideways cars.
    6. All other "General Rules" apply.
    Last edited by T man; 06-15-2019, 07:45 AM.

  • MacMoose
    replied
    Tom,
    We could certainly make a couple of phone calls, but if Chris and I drive up there and we end up with 4 or 5 guys and Harry wants to go home I will be somewhat miffed, to put it politely.

    I think I like Sal's idea as far as Friday goes , but that's just two guys' opinions. Don't Alex, Joe, Troy, and so on show up fairly regularly on Saturdays?
    Pete
    Last edited by MacMoose; Today, 05:25 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • T man
    replied
    Monday, 6/24

    Best wishes to Ron!

    Steve came. Not enough to race.

    Suggestion: For Monday nights, anyway...

    Perhaps you could phone, and let Harry know that you plan on coming to race; maybe by 2:00 PM.

    That way, a feel for the prospective attendance could be gathered.

    Just as importantly, the people who drive long distances to race could call Harry back (after 2:00 PM) and see what the attendance might look like.
    Then, they could make their final decision whether to come, or not (Letting Harry know). Any prospective driver could call back, for that matter.

    Tom

    Leave a comment:


  • bobbyraz49
    replied
    Best wishes to Ron from Bob in Depew.

    Leave a comment:


  • MP Sal
    replied
    Silly suggestion time , but why don't we move Friday night racing to Saturday at noon ?

    Leave a comment:


  • SABarnes
    replied
    Report from Ace Hobbies on Friday June 21, 2019,

    Ron is presently in the Hospital recovering from his cancer surgery. Meanwhile Harry is taking care of the store on Monday through Friday. Meanwhile Jeff takes car of the store on Saturdays from 10 AM to 3 PM. I would like to wish Ron to get well soon from his surgery.

    If enough racers showed up on Mondays early enough in the next couple weeks, Harry might be persuaded to stay until about 8 PM at the latest. Harry indicated that in Mid-July that he would be going on a planned vacation for 3 weeks and that the shop would be closed up then unless Ron felt better by then. Harry said that he would probably close up the shop on Tuesday's and Thursdays early since there was hardly anybody coming in then except for a few candy customer's in the late afternoons.

    This last Friday there was no racing at Ace Hobbies as there was only myself, Pete, Art, and Kevin as racers when I decided that I was leaving at about 5:30 PM after being there since about 1:15. So unless someone showed up later before Harry closed up, there wasn't going to be any racing. So if we wish to convince Harry to stay open later on Monday night, the racers who want to race on Monday should show up before 5 PM.

    Steve "SABarnes"
    Last edited by SABarnes; Today, 07:01 AM.

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  • MacMoose
    replied
    Hey, Al...

    I just found out that a de Tomaso Pantera raced in the British GT Championshiop from 1994 to 1997. ADA Engineering and Superpower Engineering ran the cars. Looks like you have a place to race your car!

    Pete

    Leave a comment:


  • MacMoose
    replied
    June Seventeenth, Two Thousand and Nineteen
    Monday Night “No-Magnet” Racing @ Ace Hobby

    Quote of the week: “LMP sucks.” – Don Ronaldo de Ace, Proprietor y Plenipotentiary*

    Formula 1 – in which there is a very, very close battle for 2nd and another race record is established by getting through heat 1 without multiple crashes.
    1. Chris, 76.25, 9.243 (new race record)
    2. Pete, 75.40, 9.248
    3. Al, 75.30, 9.303
    4. F.Ron , 75.20, 9.333
    5. Alex, 71.00, 9.455 (fun run)
    6. Steve, 68.80, 10.094
    7. Sal, 66.55, 10.510
    Fast Laps
    Y: 9.303, Al
    W: 9.366, Chris
    B: 9.243, Chris
    R: 9.398, Chris

    Daytona Prototype – in which there was more very close racing.
    1. Chris, 74.45, 9.479
    2. Pete, 73.95, 9.581
    3. Al, 73.70, 9.496
    4. Alex, 73.50, 9.525
    5. F.Ron , 70.65, 9.595
    6. Steve, 69.70, 9.986
    7. Sal, 64.35, 10.147
    Fast Laps
    Y: 9.496, Al
    W: 9.492, Chris
    B: 9.479, Chris
    R: 9.559, Chris

    GT-1/GT2 – run under the newly adopted GT1/GT2 rules. NOTE: Sal ran as a GTA in protest.
    1. F.Ron , GT1, 79.50. 8.800
    2. Chris, GT2, 79.30, 8.893 (race and lap record)
    3. Steve, GT1, 76.10, 9.121
    4. Pete, GT1, 76.05, 9.084
    5. Al, GT2, 75.35, 9.280
    6. Sal, GT2 (or GTA depending on your viewpoint), 70.90, 9.760

    Fast Laps, GT1: Y: 8.800, W: 8.896, B: 8.884, R: 9.015, F.Ron
    Fast Laps, GT2: Y: 8.955, W: 8.945, B: 8.893, R: 8.970, Chris

    Race #4: LMP
    1. Al, 79.90, 8.774
    2. Chris, 78.10, 8.758
    3. Steve, 75.30, 9.271
    4. Sal, 72.05, 9.543
    5. Pete , 71.70, 9.501
    Fast Laps
    Y: 8.774, Al
    W: 8.758, Chris
    B: 8.796, Chris
    R: 8.849, Chris

    Thanks to F.Ron for the great venue and the group sauna!
    Thanks to Steve for the usual tech and computering.
    Thanks to Brian for hanging out and marshalling .
    Good luck and a speedy recovery to our good buddy and host, F. Ron!



    *Plenipotentiary - 1) n. a person invested with the full power of independent action on behalf of their government, typically in a foreign country (minister plenipotentiary); 2) adj. having full power to take independent action.
    Last edited by MacMoose; 06-18-2019, 11:08 PM.

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  • MacMoose
    replied
    Ace Hobby’s Friday Night No-Mag of 6/14/2019
    Featuring F.Ron’s (or “Packerhead” as per cake inscription) birthday party AND it was Flag Day! So... an ice cream cake was presented with the inscription “Happy Birthday Packerhead” and several efforts were made to cut it. A number of sharp implements were tried and, eventually, brute force (and rising cake temperature) prevailed and a proper disbursal of cake was made. Happy birthday was sung, grilling was done, and felicitations of the occasion were offered to F. Ron, Man of the Hour/Day, etc.

    And now, the racing.
    Trans Am – There were seven Scalextrics and one SCX (which is pretty near a Scalextric, anyway).
    1. Alex, 75.70, 9.235
    2. Joe, 74.90, 9.446
    3. F.Ron, 74.45, 9.344
    4. Troydog, 73.80, 9.512
    5. Al, 73.70, 9.374
    6. Pete, 73.30, 9.446
    7. Gill, 70.15, 9.642
    8. Max, 66.90, 10.164
    Fast Laps
    Y: 9.235, Alex
    W: 9.306, Alex
    B: 9.453, F.Ron
    R: 9.543, F.Ron

    Group C – in which many quick laps were recorded.
    1. Alex, 79.70, 8.831 (ties the race record )
    2. Troydog, 79.25, 8.834
    3. F.Ron, 78.90, 8.863 (restored to co-holder of 3rd place race record in recognition of previous achievement).
    4. Al, 77.10, 9.043
    5. Joe, 76.85, 9.041
    6. Pete, 75.35, 9.042
    7. Gill, 74.60, 9.232
    8. Brian, 73.30, 9.089
    9. Max, 70.10, 9.755
    Fast Laps
    Y: 8.831, Alex
    W: 8.868, Troydog
    B: 9.011, Alex
    R: 9.064, Troydog

    GT – A mighty struggle in which Al minds his business and emerges first . Troy and Alex end up separated by a half of a skosh (a bit more than a centimeter for those unfamiliar with the skosh system).
    1. Al, 80.40, 8.728
    2. Alex, 80.10 + ½ skosh, 8.677
    3. Troydog, 80.10, 8.660
    4. Joe, 78.35, 8.803
    5. F.Ron , 78.10, 8.774
    6. Gill, 75.90, 9.010
    7. Pete, 73.15, 9.031
    8. Max, 69.40, 9.543
    Fast Laps
    Y: 8.660, Troydog
    W: 8.729, Alex
    B: 8.778, Al
    R: 8.962, Al

    Friday Night Track Records
    Trans Am: 9.091, F.Ron
    76.35, Troy, 3/30/18
    76.30, Troy, 3/9/18
    75.90, Joe, 5/13/19

    Friday Grp C: 8.661, Troydog
    79.70, Troy, 10/14/18 & Alex, 6/14/19
    79.60, Troy, 4/19/19
    79.35, Troy, 3/30/18 & F.Ron, date unk.

    Friday GT: 8.356, Russ
    82.55, Alex, 7/21/17
    82.40, Joe, 8/4/17
    82.35, Alex, 7/7/17

    Friday LMP: 8.775, Troydog
    81.30, Troydog, 5/27/16
    81.15, Troydog, 1/27/17
    80.70, Al, 3/18/16

    Leave a comment:


  • MacMoose
    replied
    Originally posted by T man View Post
    Monday night GT Rules, Revised 6/14/19

    See complete Monday night GT Rules on Post #1688.

    Happy racing!

    Tom
    Thanks, Tom!

    Leave a comment:


  • T man
    replied
    Monday night GT Rules, Revised 6/14/19

    After posting, and speaking to several Monday night racers at Ace (on 6/14), the Monday night GT Rules revisions are done. GT1 motors will remain at 30k for S cans, & 22k for long cans.
    The "new" GT2 class is essentially a merger of the old GT2 & GTA classes.

    See complete Monday night GT Rules on Post #1688.

    Happy racing!

    Tom


    Leave a comment:


  • Joefab
    replied
    Kevin,
    Ron sells scale auto cars and I believe that you should have the option to run the stock motor if you choose to. That would be the only reason to leave them in.

    Leave a comment:


  • SABarnes
    replied
    Originally posted by MacMoose View Post

    I made my proposal because it seemed to me that the rules were a little wonky and GT2 was dead in a ditch. GT2, I believe, started as a GT car version of Daytona Prototype with a 1mm o/s pod and a 9/26 gear ratio. It may have been a roaring success before I started racing at Ace, but was far less popular than DP by the time I arrived. I also saw that NSR GT cars were allowed to run GT2 with a small can in a long can inline NSR pod while the Scaleauto sidewinders with an s-can motor were stuck in GTA, but not allowed in GT2. I suppose it was a perceived performance thing but, IMO, no wonder GT2 croaked.
    SIDE NOTE: While a mostly hopeless adventure, you could always run a GTA in GT1. Any GT body style is ok and the mandatory GTA yellow flat 6 motor is inside the GT1 limits. I did it a few times when my GT1 car was too miserable to drive (or broken). I got my tail feathers burned, of course... but I got in the race.



    I agree that it would be nice to have 1 or 2 motors on the list, but a few of the ones on it aren't going to be serious contenders anyway and if you have orange endbell slot.its you're going to be fine. The yellow flat 6 has more torque for sure, but it's heavier than the s-can... and the GT1 and GTA class records used to be identical until GTA got open gear ratios.
    GT2 actually started as what the Slot-It GT cars were produced stock. They were GT class cars with the Grey, .05 mm offset pods with Orange end-bell motors that were stock in the cars with the stock gearing to start with just being able to change to any "17" wheels and any silicone tires. It wasn't until a couple years later when Slot-It in all of its questionable wisdom started putting their flat six yellow motors in their 1 mm offset angle-winder pods as stock into their GT's. Just wanted you to know the correct history of the GT2 class It wasn't that it was less poplar, but that more racers wanted to be at least more competitive overall with the GT2's/GTA's and that wasn't practicable until recently.

    Steve "SABarnes"
    Last edited by SABarnes; 06-14-2019, 06:54 AM.

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  • kevin143
    replied
    I think you should toss out running scale auto motors if Ron does not sell them at the store.

    Leave a comment:


  • MacMoose
    replied
    Originally posted by T man View Post
    In summary, for GT1 motor rules:

    I believe that we should NOT increase Monday night GT1 motor rules above 22,000 rpm (where they are now) OR possibly, keep the GT1 rpm max. at 22k; and additionally, allow ONLY the Slot-it Flat 6RS, 25k motor.

    COMMENTS?
    I'm OK with leaving Monday night GT1 as is.

    Leave a comment:

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