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2011 world challenge touring car and gt class rules

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  • 2011 world challenge touring car and gt class rules

    WORLD CHALLENGE TOURING CAR AND GT CLASS RULES 2011


    Rules attached as .doc file, if anyone has trouble downloading or viewing please let me know and I will cut-paste it into the thread.

    Couple things to note:
    • Podding Touring car chassis is still allowed under the current rules. I went back and forth on this, but it is allowed.
    • Resin bodies still allowed in Touring (if anyone actually runs one!) but must use the RTR chassis from a car approved in Touring.
    • A "Performance Adjustment" rule is now in place, please read carefully
    A few things that are not material to car building:
    • Scoring- probably keep the existing system, but open to other suggestions for consideration
    • Race Schedule- going to try and work out a tentative schedule with the track hosts.
    • All competitors and host will need to provide the following:
    • Competitors- return address, car make/model, parts used, gearing, etc. to be included in with your paypal payment or via email/pm
    • Track hosts- Shipping information, track type, length, surface, power supply, timing setup, and if you have them, pictures are nice.
    • If a host's club is involved, please feel free to promote your local guys!
    I am seriously considering some sort of "bonus" or similar for tracks host in recognition of thier service. Perhaps jacket patches or some other small thing to show our appreciation. Input on this will be welcome!

    Cheers, Don
    Last edited by DWalker; 11-14-2010, 03:09 PM.

  • #2
    So, same prep rules for both classes? Can I prep one M3 and enter it in both classes?

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by redlynr View Post
      So, same prep rules for both classes? Can I prep one M3 and enter it in both classes?

      I had not thought of this, but you bring up a good point! MY intial thoughts are no, as it could quite possibly play hell with timing and scoring, but I would think you could prep two M3's and enter each class.

      Very interesting question! Any other thoughts?

      Comment


      • #4
        Economically, it makes sense to allow 1 model that runs in both to compete in both, BUT . . . how many racing teams use the same chassis for 2 classes? If the idea is to "keep it real", then 2 cars are required. If the decision is based on economic circumstances, then 1 car would be acceptable.

        Just my humble opinion.

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        • #5
          One car per class seems the best way. Otherwise it could get rather confusing at race time keeping each car straight, unless... each car only gets one run and then whatever result is accrued is also applied to all the entered classes for that car.

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          • #6
            Contemplating moving GT motor limit to 30K and keeping TC limit at 24K. Thoughts?

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            • #7
              Hmmm, after reading these through again, just a question/suggestion . . .
              Would it be too much trouble to separate the 2 classes by which motor is allowed? IE the Touring cars running up to 21K and the GT cars up to 24K? One would hope that the GT cars have faster lap times than thier touring bretheren.

              Comment


              • #8
                Me personally...... K.I.S.S. I like the motors being where they're at.

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                • #9
                  Would cars with 30k motors be faster than cars with 24k motors? In most of the proxy world, cars only need 23k or so to max out in terms of driveability, even when running on 10 volts.

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                  • #10
                    Well see there is the rub- DTM, BTCC and similar "touring cars" in fact run near to or even faster lap times than many Speed GT cars. I also do not indulge in the idea of "scale" perfomance. Some touring cars are going to be faster, some GT cars are going to be slower. I detest limiting the perfomance of few based on the performance of others.
                    I wont argue about this, but once the magnets are gone the motor is the least of your issues, and NOT what makes your car fast. an example is Monovells NC-5 powered Pug, which has won a few times now over more powerfully equipped "orange endbell", Flat-6, etc. powered (and most likely lighter) cars, including my own! The Great Smokeio has repeatedly maintained that he has never won a race with a motor, and I would believe him.

                    Real world example- the 3R Racing Volvo WON the Drivers, Manufacturers, and Team Championships this year along with most laps led, fastest laps, etc. DESPITE being the HEAVIEST car in the feild with the LEAST horsepower.

                    I would "think" the GT cars will be faster that the Touring cars because they are lower, wider, and have more room for proper tires, but that honestly remains to be seen.

                    I am considering the motor change as a way to define between GT and Touring Cars really. I myself will likely use a motor under 24k, but each to thier own

                    I would think

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                    • #11
                      i agree with Robert, there is little gain over 23k; leave the motor rule as is... make the touring car prep the same as last year, and let the gt cars use the HRS, etc. Or the other way around... IMO there has to be some differentiation between the classes besides the shape body.

                      Just my 2 cents...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        ...well, as long as everybody else is gettin' their opinion heard....

                        First off, we definately need to differentiate the two classes by more than just body type. Being that all of us, currently in the series, would like to take what we've learned into next years series, I'm definately for keeping the Touring Car rules as-is! It ain't broke....lets not fix it!

                        So, the real question is; how do we make the second class different (other than body styles that is)? My first thought is that the Speed GT cars should be simpler and, possibly not as fast. I believe that that series runs glorified IT (improved touring) cars. In other words, they at least start w/ a real car...no tube frames, etc...! Heck, they even run on street tires (although I think they're moving to "slicks" next year). I believe that the WTCC, BTCC, JGTC series run purpose-built, tube frame racing cars (I could be wrong and, feel free to straighten me out if this is not true). Yes, I know that they are limited to 2000cc motors and, therefore, aren't all THAT fast but, as stated they are purpose-built racing cars. That's my initial thoughts.

                        The most important thing is to diferentiate w/o changing the existing WTCC rules!

                        I would also say, upfront, that I don't think the NSR Porsche or Corvette should be allowed....don't want to make this a "spending" contest.

                        Just my $0.02 worth!

                        David

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I've got an idea... Leave the touring car rules as is with bigger motors and stock chassis, and have the gt cars with adustable pod chassis but sub 20k motors and see what the outcome is.

                          Another 2 cents, sorry...

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Your pretty close, although Touring Cars are glorified (and very expensive) IT cars and GT cars are purpose built "tub" cars. The 3R Volvo starts with a Volvo chassis, but thats about where it ends.

                            Ok so here is my current leaning, although still open to other thoughts-

                            Touring Car remains the SAME with the ONE exception of not HRS/HRS Chassis. Every single car this year rode on a stock chassis, so I am not sure this has any effect at all! Otherwise, Its not broke and we aint fixin it!

                            Speed GT Is the same as Touring car EXCEPT with a 30K motor limit, and HRS/HRS2 chassis are allowed.

                            I am on the fence regarding the NSR cars, on the one hand they look VERY good out of the box, which would be a blessing to first-timers or the tuning-challenged among us, on the other hand I do not want to see GT turn into an NSR spec race. I cannot (yet) really exclude them based on cost, or even a performance advantage, so the ONLY basis I can see at this time to exclude them on is if they are "undersized" or "scale challenged" compared to the rest of the field. On the other hand, since the Speed GT series maintains competetiveness through "Competition Adjustments" should the NSR's threaten to disrupt the series I am certian they could be reined in.

                            Remember the goal here is to have fun, and a big part of that fun is to maintian the formula we have enjoyed thus far with no one car or type of car enjoying certian advantage or domination over the rest of the feild. I will allow nothing, not even bruised egos, to disrupt this.

                            Cheers,
                            Don

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by DWalker View Post
                              Your pretty close, although Touring Cars are glorified (and very expensive) IT cars and GT cars are purpose built "tub" cars. The 3R Volvo starts with a Volvo chassis, but thats about where it ends.
                              Don,
                              So I had it backwards? You probably know better, you're involvement in actual 1:1 motorsports is much more recent than mine. So be it.

                              Originally posted by DWalker View Post
                              Ok so here is my current leaning, although still open to other thoughts-

                              Touring Car remains the SAME with the ONE exception of not HRS/HRS Chassis. Every single car this year rode on a stock chassis, so I am not sure this has any effect at all! Otherwise, Its not broke and we aint fixin it!

                              Speed GT Is the same as Touring car EXCEPT with a 30K motor limit, and HRS/HRS2 chassis are allowed.
                              I'm thinkin'...I like this Completely and totally agree with your statement about this years field and, would hate to change the rules up, on the original class, thus negating some of what we've learned or figured out this year!

                              Originally posted by DWalker View Post
                              On the other hand, since the Speed GT series maintains competetiveness through "Competition Adjustments" should the NSR's threaten to disrupt the series I am certian they could be reined in.
                              Not sure how we'd achieve this "mid series" but I'm listening....

                              Originally posted by DWalker View Post
                              Remember the goal here is to have fun, and a big part of that fun is to maintian the formula we have enjoyed thus far with no one car or type of car enjoying certian advantage or domination over the rest of the feild. I will allow nothing, not even bruised egos, to disrupt this.
                              ABSOLUTELY And this year has BEEN fun...at least for me!

                              David

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