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RUST-OLEUM vs. LATEX vs. TRACTION vs. TIRE TYPE

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  • #31
    Just a personal observation - I've found that the slower - more technical - a layout is the closer the lap times are between lanes.


    Da Vols - Bruce & Harriet & Kali

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    • #32
      I did the same thing as Dave. Spent countless hours on the design to make the two lanes as equal as possible. My aim was to give both lanes the same number of inside/outside bends either approaching or at the ends of the straights as well as giving the both the same length. This was achieved both in the layout and with the use of crossovers. I did however, install seperate voltage controllers for each lane so I could handicap the obviously faster cars, particularly when inexperienced drivers were running cars. I have several grandchildren who love to play with the track when they visit so that lets me "tune" their races to keep them even....one of them loves to run a Slot.It McLaren while another likes the Carrera Mustang....no contest at equal voltage....

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      • #33
        I know this is an old thread, but I thought Bruce may have a personal interest in the results.
        As I mentioned during the discussion, I was going to paint my Carrera track with Rustoleum however, after reading Dave's test results, I decided to go with a smooth finish and run sillies.
        I sanded the track, gave it a coat of plastic primer followed by a coat of gloss enamel....sanded that and gave it another coat of gloss paint.
        Grip was ok but it took a lot of cleaning to get it there....so I gave it another light sanding and a finish coat of clear gloss.
        Grip was awesome but since the track is located in a corner of my workshop with lots of fine dust in the air, grip would disappear after just a couple of laps.
        It was impossible to run cars without magnets once there was the slightest bit of dust....they wouldn't even go up the hill....just spin the wheels....and fishtail all the way down the straights like a drunken sailor....
        Since it was not much fun spending most of my time cleaning the track and tires, I decided I would experiment by spraying the uphill section and the entry/exit to the bend preceding the main straight with Rustoleum....what a difference....twice, no 3 times the cornering speed....lots of speed onto the straight and have to back-off going up the hill to the overpass....and since it had such a good base under the Rustoleum, it only took a light coat. Biggest problem now is getting the car to slow down sufficiently at the end of the straight since it is carrying a lot more speed....just locks the wheels and skids now...off to Lowes tomorrow for a couple more cans.
        Lot less frustrating trying to run without magnets.
        My conclusions are that if you have a nice, reasonably clean environment, smooth finish with sillies works....if conditions are not so clean, textured finish is the way to go.

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        • #34
          ....if conditions are not so clean, textured finish is the way to go.
          Glad it worked out good for you. Be interested in hearing after you've done the whole layout if you find stock tires acceptable.


          Da Vol - Bruce

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          • #35
            Thanks Bruce....will let you know....I have a Slot.It Porsche and a TSRF I am experimenting with and have removed the magnets from both of them.

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            • #36
              Bruce,
              Finally got the entire track painted....what an incredible improvement.....certainly the way to go in less than pristine conditions...doesn't seem to matter what tires are under the cars. I did fit a pair of F1/S2 tires to the Slot.It Porsche (no magnets) and it will run faster laps than it did on the original Carrera surface with magnets.
              I also ran a 1/24 Porsche I built on a H & R chassis with silicon coated sponge tires and it is awesome....way more control....
              Lot of work in the end, but well worth the effort....thanks for your input and continued interest.
              I was going to post a pic of my first build....but too keen to run it and it is a bit 2nd hand now....

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              • #37
                Again, glad you're happy with it.

                You'll be surprised when you run some stock tires on it (try the stock Slot.It tire on the Porsche)...some have better grip than aftermarket ones. Also, if you run silicones and rubber tires there shouldn't be the problem that normally happens...and I've found that you don't have to clean the track for the silicones since they don't seem to pickup little if any debris for whatever reason.

                The only minus I've found - and probably pertains just to me because of my outside track - is that traction goes away when the temp is 40 degrees or lower - of course the "driver" tends to go away too...LOL


                Da Vol - Bruce

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                • #38
                  My track is located in an unconditioned (read cold!) space as well....good to know I can expect traction to be even better when the warmer weather arrives.....hasn't been above 40 here since I painted it.

                  I guess tire temperatures have more to do with the improved traction than the track....and it is kinda hard to make the fingers react when they are close to being frost bitten....
                  I like the idea of rubber tires so the track gets that racing line on it....

                  I have to tell you Bruce, before applying the Rustoleum, I was fast getting to the point of just packing up the track and cars and giving the space back to the 1:1 car....I wasn't enjoying racing with magnets...you are either on the track or off it. Without magnets, the cars were undriveable....wouldn't even go up the hill unless the track was absolutely spotless. Now, I can make the cars slide but it is far more predictable and controllable and there is more skill involved. Consequentially, there is a greater sense of satisfaction when you run a couple of quick laps.....
                  Last edited by brockfan; 02-17-2009, 09:13 AM.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by davejr View Post
                    SKID PAD TEST a comprehensive paint texture and tire traction test
                    PSSSSTTT ..... Your "car" only has one tire on the back and none on the front....
                    It is real easy to point out this fact because there isnt a body on it either...

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                    • #40
                      Thatís because itís not a car, but a test chassis.

                      Dave

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by brockfan View Post
                        Bruce,
                        Finally got the entire track painted....what an incredible improvement.....certainly the way to go in less than pristine conditions...doesn't seem to matter what tires are under the cars. I did fit a pair of F1/S2 tires to the Slot.It Porsche (no magnets) and it will run faster laps than it did on the original Carrera surface with magnets.
                        I also ran a 1/24 Porsche I built on a H & R chassis with silicon coated sponge tires and it is awesome....way more control....
                        Lot of work in the end, but well worth the effort....thanks for your input and continued interest.
                        I was going to post a pic of my first build....but too keen to run it and it is a bit 2nd hand now....
                        brockfan, if I understand you correctly, the rust-oleum (spray textured paint I assume?) was a big improvement over the gloss enamel (under your conditions), but how does the rust-oleum compare to the original Carrera surface? If you had to do it over again, what exactly would you do, just sand, prime and paint (with rust-oleum)?

                        TIA, -Ed

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by davejr View Post
                          Thatís because itís not a car, but a test chassis.

                          Dave
                          Just curious. How do expect to duplicate results from the skid pad to the track without testing using a car?

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                          • #43
                            The test chassis is used just to test individual items. To get the best results from each test, I to try eliminate any variables. Removing and replacing the body each time would create one variable, the front tires would create another variable. Each brand of tire tested varied from one tire to the next, this is why I only use one tire at a time.

                            This article covers the comparison of how different brands of tires performed on different textures and brands of paint.

                            Once I established what surface texture and brand of tire I wanted to use, the track was painted, sanded and polished.

                            The S1s became my tire of choice because the different tests proved they had the highest coefficient of friction on polished latex paint, and performed the best in a turn.

                            When I build a car and have it fully prepared for racing, the first thing I do is test it on the skid pad and do the preliminary chassis tuning. From there it goes the race track for final tuning.

                            Dave

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by ejc View Post
                              brockfan, if I understand you correctly, the rust-oleum (spray textured paint I assume?) was a big improvement over the gloss enamel (under your conditions), but how does the rust-oleum compare to the original Carrera surface? If you had to do it over again, what exactly would you do, just sand, prime and paint (with rust-oleum)?

                              TIA, -Ed

                              Yes Ed, it is a texture paint....but not a coarse texture.
                              The reason I started the entire exercise was because, no matter what tire I tried, I couldn't get any grip once I removed the magnets. The cars were virtually undriveable, even at 10 volts.
                              The gloss finish was very good with sillies, but only when the track was absolutely spotless....within a couple of laps, enough dust had accumulated to make the cars slip and slide again.
                              If I had my time over, I would have given the track 2 coats of gloss paint then 2 coats of Rust-oleum. I have to tell you, the Rust-oleum does not give very good "color transfer" and given the cost of it, I would make sure the color of the base coats of gloss enamel are close to the color of the Rust-oleum. After all, you are only using it to get the texture finish.....
                              I know some people shy away from texture because of the damage it can do to the cars finish....personally, I buy cars to race and they are bound to suffer a little damage in the process, I think it adds to the cars appeal.

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