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  #1  
Old 07-14-2017, 07:52 AM
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Default HOCOC Spec Stock Class

For the upcoming season HOCOC will be running a Spec Stock class. This will be the first time that we will be running modern inline cars, except for G-Jet types, since 2011. I converted some Wizzard and BSRT SS cars to Spec Stocks and also built two new Viper cars from parts. I could have just bought some Viper cars, their Spec Stock version is reasonably priced, but I already had the chassis plus some other parts on hand and I needed to get used to working on them as well as the BSRTs once again. I needed to find the right combinations of slip-on tires and wheel diameters for each make, which by itself took some effort. I also had to get back into painting and mounting Lexan bodies, I had only done one of those in the last eight years.



Our rules and other info can be found here: http://hococ.weebly.com/
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  #2  
Old 07-14-2017, 08:57 AM
model murdering model murdering is offline
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Home brewed cool!
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  #3  
Old 07-14-2017, 05:30 PM
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Default Viper V1 Spec Stock

The Viper Spec Stock comes standard with .432 PST rear slip-on tires. They generally do well across the board. But some cars can take .424 or so for serious race trim with tracks that have .014" high rails.
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  #4  
Old 07-15-2017, 05:43 AM
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0.432s are as low as I can go on my MaxTrax. Here is a chart for 200 series Super Tires mounted on various diameter wheels. The chart is sorted by decreasing mounted tire diameter.

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  #5  
Old 07-17-2017, 05:08 AM
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Those rules look like the HOPRA Spec Stock class except for the lexan body. At the past 2 HOPRA Nats MARC's Spec Racer class has been raced. The only significant difference for this class is that hot stock arms are allowed. HOPRA will be adding these rules to their rulebook this year. You might want to consider adopting them as well since many racers in the area already have cars for this class and they could participate in a HOCOC race with no changes to their cars.
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  #6  
Old 07-17-2017, 10:46 AM
gmcullan gmcullan is offline
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HOCOC series, HOCOC rules. If our rules don't suit you, no problem. You just race where they do suit you.
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  #7  
Old 07-17-2017, 11:06 AM
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Or people around the country could actually adhere to the same rules so anyone from anywhere could come and race.

If you're trying to attract new racers, it would be better to be MORE inclusive to outsiders, not LESS.

Track-specific or group-specific rules are the opposite of inclusive, especially if a similar class is already run nationally.
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  #8  
Old 07-17-2017, 11:21 AM
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No problem Gerry. I guess the reference to "HOPRA Approved" in your rules threw me off.
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  #9  
Old 07-17-2017, 11:43 AM
Slotbob Slotbob is offline
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EG--I get where you are coming from, but will have to respectfully disagree this time. Emphasis on respectfully.

HOCOC could suggest that HOPRA change their rules, but they (also) respectfully have not.

I guess the argument could be made that the largest sanctioning body should hold sway, but then, there are some that do not want to run their rules for whatever reason, and start their own deal.

JLM's hardbody rules = same same.

Even at my miniscule venue, cars and tars have to be what we run, although anyone can practice with their stuff.
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  #10  
Old 07-17-2017, 02:37 PM
gmcullan gmcullan is offline
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Like a lot of groups, HOCOC started by looking at HOPRA rules as a benchmark and then "tweaked" them to fit our own needs and expectations. I suspect that there are numerous clubs that have done similar. Certainly MARC, NBRC, and GRoNE have gone down that route many times in the past for various Spec and IROC types of classes as well as local tweaks to the "national" rules.

Another example would be T-Jet Super Stock racing. I'm sure that many clubs started by looking at the Fray rules and then tweaking them to the individual group's satisfaction. In New England alone we have at least three slightly different sets of T-Jet rules.

Like I said, you pick the group you want to race with and then build your cars to their rules. If you want to race on a national level, you build to that set of rules. If you want to race with other clubs that use slightly different rules, you build to meet their rules. There is nothing wrong with that concept. National or international standardized rules are only valid and have value for those that choose to compete at that level. Just because a particular group's rules are different than yours doesn't make them any less valid.
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Old 07-17-2017, 08:04 PM
ctdurf ctdurf is offline
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As someone with one foot in both camps ... (obviously I speak figuratively) this time I have to admit I agree with Paul . I had expressed this opinion to Al and Richard when I first saw the rules .

Gerry , this is not a question of the validity of the rules or of HOCOC's sovereign right to create their own rulebook . There is nothing that can or should impinge on those two principles . What I brought up to Al and Richard was simply aligning the rules for the convenience of the racers and to create the opportunity to make cross participation as seamless as possible .

In this case 1 part was the difference between the two rules packages . I realize we are talking about a $15 armature here but knowing what we spend on stuff to run TJets and given the fact the arms last nearly forever it's really not that big a bite .I have to admit I get the sense from Al Richard and now Gerry we are digging in our heels because we can and because no one wants to reconsider the obvious . However , this does fall in that category of "sovereign rights ".
As it is a Hococ guy could go to a MARC race and run legally . Depending on how naturally strong (near the ohm limit and excellent natural balance) his stock arm is he may be very competitive . The Marc guys cannot show up at a Hococ race with their cars though . To change the car to a legal configuration requires at least an armature change and , to be done properly , should have a matched , broken in endbell swapped in at the same time . Having to carry these parts and do the swap-over and to later have to convert back is a disincentive to the guy who would have liked to just come race .

There is absolutely nothing wrong with different clubs coming in different "flavors" and having different rules . Actually , the diversity is good because it creates a situation where almost anyone can find the niche they want to race in . This being said , I strongly believe an easy path to some cross-pollination of the groups makes the all stronger while providing the most opportunity for the racers . After all it really is the racers having as many good opportunities to race as possible that is the most important thing here .

Flaming arrows in this direction !

Durf
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  #12  
Old 07-18-2017, 08:24 AM
gmcullan gmcullan is offline
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Durf, no flaming arrow for you. To switch armatures between the groups, if that is what a racer chooses to do, is no big deal. I've lost track of how many times I watched Dan Decosmo change an armature and endbell in 60 seconds or less. This would work for either the BSRT or Viper cars. While the Slottech and Wizzard cars are a little more fiddly to change armatures, it is still no big deal. You can spent way more time fiddling to get the right tire combination that changing an armature.

When work took me all over the country and I was racing 1/24th scale Group 20, I had 5 different cars. I raced in New England, New Jersey, the Chicago area, southern California, and Seattle Washington. Each group had slightly different rules. It was my choice if I raced with them, and if I did, it was incumbent upon me to build my cars to fit their rules.

The same situation exists with Spec Stock cars. Different groups have slightly different rules. While a lot of the groups allow hot stock armatures, some don't. HOCOC does not have an annual rules meeting. HOCOC allows Lexan bodies. I believe some groups specify hard bodies. HOCOC rules are discussed and voted upon by a 3-person committee. And for the record, I was for allowing hot stock armatures. But the final rule for HOCOC was stock armatures only. No problem, that's how I built my cars.

The Bottom line? If you want to race Spec Stock with HOCOC this season (4 out of our 11 race dates will include Spec Stock), you will have to use a completely stock armature. Conversely, if a HOCOC member wanted to run that class with MARC, NBRC, or any other group that allows hot stock armatures they would probably have to install a hot stock armature to be completely competitive.
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  #13  
Old 07-20-2017, 06:10 PM
ctdurf ctdurf is offline
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Although I still agree with most of what you say we are considering radically different audiences . Dan DeCosmo and those like him are not the group I had in mind . Dan is good enough that a 60 second swap while dangling upside down in a tank of water in the dark wouldn't surprise me . He can show up on a given day , borrow your worst car , tune on it a bit , and then spend the rest of the day spanking you with it .

The people I had in mind come from a few different demographics from Dan . There are the somewhat tentative newbies like Jess and Cody and I hope this year the five Millers . Then there are the more experienced guys who are new to magnet cars like Terry and Hal . Lastly there are the "opportunists" for lack of a better word . Guys like Mike Resnick , Peter , Donnie Hall . Peter Medeiros , Tom Smith and others who are always willing to try and sneak in an extra race or two or ten when they can but are often because of that annoying thing called "real life" doing it on the spur of the moment . Making it simpler and more convenient makes their chances of being able to come and race better . This is what I think is a good thing for all concerned .
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  #14  
Old 07-21-2017, 03:52 AM
gmcullan gmcullan is offline
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Durf, the absolute bottom line is that this is a HOCOC series, HOCOC rules. Suggesting that we change our rules to match other groups is as absurd as HOCOC demanding that other groups change their rules to match our's.

This discussion has become pointless. Moderator, please close this thread.

Last edited by gmcullan; 07-21-2017 at 07:14 AM.
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  #15  
Old 07-21-2017, 10:39 AM
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Wet Coast Racer Wet Coast Racer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmcullan View Post
This discussion has become pointless. Moderator, please close this thread.
This thread was started by Rich, and he hasn't expressed any desire to have it closed.

So as long as everyone is respectful of each others' point of view and the discussion remains friendly, then there's no reason to close it.
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