Are most races awarded on a points basis over there then?
I have always found points racing to be unjust. You only had to beat the guys in the same races as you, not the whole field. Granted you got nights where this was very easy, or do-able, and these might eventually balance those where you faced nothing but aces all evening, but when it was my turn to get the fly-covered end of that particular stick it did not feel too good.
I was under the impression most HO racing was done over time and distance....
I was under the impression most HO racing was done over time and distance....
Most races are. In any race run by a sanctioning body, the races are timed & marshaled. This discussion is on variations of CnB, which I've never seen run by anyone but club and/or basement racers.
For the nationals or the Fray, or any big race for which people travel long distances, timed marshaled racing is probably better. You want the best racer of THAT ONE EVENT coming away with the win. In a club championship, CnB offers some variability that evens out over the span of a whole season.
the HOPRA nats is based on moving up through the field.
if you qualify last, you start at the bottom and work up to the semis then mains if you can
if qualify in the top few spots, you wait for them to make it up to the semi before you race,
Strategy is part of the game! I have seen guys who qualify at the top not do it and start from the bottom to better learn the track.
Funnily enough I was speaking to one of our guys about handicaps, as he has just joined a 1/32nd club that is struggling. They are bringing in loads of changes, and adding HO. Handicaps are one of the changes, and I told him that I thought it was a good move for now as they are basically starting from scratch.
However, I do wonder at what point does doing all this stuff for newbies become unedifying? Behind the wildly popular Slot.it challenge the EAHORC series now holds it's head high alongside several other national series, in terms of attendance, status and how seriously it is taken by the participants.......
That is an important point. While handicap racing has proved very successful at club level, it is (to the best of my knowledge) not used at higher level races.
As bemoore pointed out, you never see CnB run by anyone but club and/or basement racers. Handicap racing is an option for encouraging newbies for club and/or basement racers.
In my humble opinion, it would seem that those who enjoy C&B and handicapping races are more into simply having fun with a little competition thrown in, while those who dislike that type of racing derive their enjoyment more from the competition itself. To the former, it's more fun to lose by an inch than to win by a mile. To the latter, it's the opposite.
Each are valid ways to enjoy the hobby, but it also explains why C&B is much more common at club and "basement" racing, while never used at regional/national/international competition levels.
what is the purpose of handicap racing? i understand how it works, but why is it so important for a newbie to come in and have a chance at winning a race? when i first started racing, my assumption was that there would be a learning curve. i didn't expect to win, or even come close to winning. if i race at a new track, i know that it will take time to figure the track out. i don't expect the host to spot me laps just because i've never raced at their house before.
this was true when i first started doing anything else for that matter - bmx, my current job, etc. i didn't expect to instantly be the best. i just show up as prepared as possible, and figure it out along the way. you don't start out bmx being able to clear huge jumps, you don't start working and instantly become CEO.
is winning really that much of a "hook," especially when you are given a head start? honestly, i wouldn't want a better racer to spot me time. i'd rather lose by 9 seconds than be spotted 10 seconds and win by 1.
ultimately, slot car racing is just for fun. slot car racing is my equivalent of poker night, since i stink at poker and no one will spot me an extra card!
Last edited by boopiejones; 06-03-2012 at 07:43 AM.
slot car racing is my equivalent of poker night, since i stink at poker and no one will spot me an extra card!
Interesting that you relate slot cars to poker. I envisioned CnB as a means to make slot car racing more like poker. In poker, the newbie will not win the night (unless you've been hustled), but they MAY win a hand.
when I started in my club I was at the bottom!
Even though I was not good, I started to travel to races, and the best thing I ever did was to get involved with HOPRA. The people there thought me so much! They took the time to provide advice, tips, loaners, and friendship!
I really hoping to get to Ohio in 2 weeks to to play and learn some more at the HOPRA NATs.
no C&B, but lots of fun!
what is the purpose of handicap racing? i understand how it works, but why is it so important for a newbie to come in and have a chance at winning a race? ........
The purpose of handicap racing, and indeed all racing formats, is to produce a form of racing that racers enjoy and one that keeps them coming back.
A number of clubs have been successful at retaining newbies etc. using handicap racing. Mostly these clubs have both handicap and scratch racing. It has spread mainly by guys visiting other clubs, seeing handicap racing working successfully and trying it at their own clubs.
Handicap racing is just one of the ways of racing clubs can use. Nobody is saying its the universal answer, just something that works well at some clubs. The key is using race formats that works for your club. If you don't want handicap racing for whatever reason, that's fine, do what works for you.
In my humble opinion, it would seem that those who enjoy C&B and handicapping races are more into simply having fun with a little competition thrown in, while those who dislike that type of racing derive their enjoyment more from the competition itself. To the former, it's more fun to lose by an inch than to win by a mile. To the latter, it's the opposite.
Each are valid ways to enjoy the hobby, but it also explains why C&B is much more common at club and "basement" racing, while never used at regional/national/international competition levels.
I'm having trouble with the premise of just about all that. The inference that the home/rug/CnB racer has somehow tapped into having fun and the 'serious' racers just want to win could not tally less with the national HO race we had yesterday. 20 guys, a pretty hard core track, cars doing 300ips and everyone trying really hard, but at the same time the room was full of noise and laughter all day.
I think we should all be careful not to generalize.
I can only go by my exposure. There's a whole lot LESS laughing and such at the competitions I've been to. Any crash is frowned upon and any marshal that doesn't snap up the car and magically get it back in its correct lane faster than if it never came off is grimaced at. Oh, no one complains unless a marshal is particularly clumsy, but at races like this when a mishap occurs, you don't get laughs and rollicking fun, you get angry stares and bitter hushed remarks. That's just my personal experience. I've heard plenty of stories of worse things from others. I'm glad your highly competitive club still understands that they're just a bunch of grown men playing with toy cars, and that a loss in a race is not a statement of their value as a human being. I'd suggest that maybe the difference is that I'm a 1/32 guy, and you're HO, but many of the horror stories I hear are from HO guys, so that doesn't play.
Sorry to generalize, though. I'm sure there are all kinds of clubs out there, including those which race C&B and also are full of angry old men that scoff at race mishaps, rather than laugh at them.
what is the purpose of handicap racing? i understand how it works, but why is it so important for a newbie to come in and have a chance at winning a race? when i first started racing, my assumption was that there would be a learning curve. i didn't expect to win, or even come close to winning. if i race at a new track, i know that it will take time to figure the track out. i don't expect the host to spot me laps just because i've never raced at their house before.
this was true when i first started doing anything else for that matter - bmx, my current job, etc. i didn't expect to instantly be the best. i just show up as prepared as possible, and figure it out along the way. you don't start out bmx being able to clear huge jumps, you don't start working and instantly become CEO.
is winning really that much of a "hook," especially when you are given a head start? honestly, i wouldn't want a better racer to spot me time. i'd rather lose by 9 seconds than be spotted 10 seconds and win by 1.
ultimately, slot car racing is just for fun. slot car racing is my equivalent of poker night, since i stink at poker and no one will spot me an extra card!
I agree completely. Our society seems to have evolved to making sure no one "loses" and gets their feelings hurt. I do not have children, but I understand sometimes there is no score keeping at a game. Or everyone gets a trophy. This does not seem to be a way to inspire people to get better or much more importantly, to handle situations where things don't go your way. I feel sorry for those kids who grow up not knowing how to handle defeat (I did not have this problem - LOL!).
I recently joined a group of racers who run Tyco 440x2s in a C&B format. Having never raced competitively, I expected to be trounced, yet learn at the same time. Surprisingly I was able to win a few heats and participate in almost all the mains. Why? I wasn't the fastest, but I did stay in the slot. Had I been beaten soundly, I would have tried to figure out why and come back again next time. My cars are no where near the fastest and there is a lot I can learn about tuning inline cars, but in a C&B format, the race does not always go to the swift.
One thing not mentioned is how hard it is for someone who is color blind to marshal, especially when you get those colors that confuse us. For me, it's differentiating between red, orange and (sometimes) green. When marshaling a C&B, it's pretty easy since you just grab the cars off the track. If I had to place a car back into one of those lanes whose color gives me trouble, I could make a mess of things.
One thing I always thought would be a good format is to have a set penalty time for a deslot. When someone deslots, power to their lane is cut for a predetermined number of seconds (maybe 10). It must be enough time for the marshal to calmly be able to reslot the car. Maybe a lane kill switch at each station which the driver must hit befoe his car can be reslotted.
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