All joking aside I do agree with Alan that drivers knowing there will be limited or no track calls typically changes their way of driving and helps to minimize the wrecks. However, I do prefer allowing track calls for riders since you sometimes can become a rider due to circumstances out of your control and these scaleauto's can become bent, tweaked or even distroyed in a hard wreck. This becomes an even bigger issue on the wood commercial tracks since the slots are bigger and the cars seem to find them easier than on a plastic track. Also, the commercial tracks are typically faster and have solid walls that can do some serious damage. I've raced in numerous events with Alan over the years and this is the one thing we just disagree on. With that being said, he still puts on a great event and I hope to be there! Even if I have to wear a catchers gear to corner marshal.....
However, I do prefer allowing track calls for riders since you sometimes can become a rider due to circumstances out of your control and these scaleauto's can become bent, tweaked or even distroyed in a hard wreck. This becomes an even bigger issue on the wood commercial tracks since the slots are bigger and the cars seem to find them easier than on a plastic track. Also, the commercial tracks are typically faster and have solid walls that can do some serious damage.
True, and you probably can't understate it. With cars like this, the race can easily end for somebody in a single rider incident, so extra caution for riders is a really good idea.
True, and you probably can't understate it. With cars like this, the race can easily end for somebody in a single rider incident, so extra caution for riders is a really good idea.
i too agree, as with the rules that we will be using, if you become a rider and your car gets wrecked, then it's of to the pits to (hopefully) get your body assembled into 1 piece to continue the race. I totally understand these rules and why they are enforced, and agree with all of them. So i have to first race in one of these events before i make my final opinion.
Here we have found if you want to win you cannot afford to put yourself in a position where you become a rider. Crash once and you will not win, that simple.
So driving with caution has it's rewards. It protects the car, and keeps you making laps. When I read about broken cars I have to think that people are not looking after their equipment. I have a fleet of BRM cars that are over 6 years old no broken cars there. I also have a fleet of Scaleauto cars, and the body damage is more pronounced, why? Light weight body heavier metal chassis, faster corner speed than BRM ( not much but it make a difference ) In part it is by design, Scaleauto has followed the Plafit path trying to re-create a form of racing where the car is not indestructible, it is up to the driver to bring it through the race without damage.
To me this adds to the thrill of racing, I have to look after, and protect the rear wing, and exhaust detail on my car or suffer the consequences, so I drive with that in mind.
When I raced lexan bodied cars I could just drive through a wreck, no fear, little chance of and damage to the light weight flexible body. With Scaleauto this is, by design, part of this form of driving.
In the Spanish Championship you even have to have the windshield wiper on your car or you cannot pass tech. And the racing was some of the best I have even seen, just different to racing without cause and effect.
So to each their own, this is Scaleracing, and you need to protect the car from the Track and other Riders, not the Track protect you.
See those of you who are interested at "The Races"
__________________
Cheers
Alan
Last edited by Scaleracing; 07-20-2012 at 09:02 AM.
In part it is by design, Scaleauto has followed the Plafit path trying to re-create a form of racing where the car is not indestructible, it is up to the driver to bring it through the race without damage.
To me this adds to the thrill of racing, I have to look after, and protect the rear wing, and exhaust detail on my car or suffer the consequences, so I drive with that in mind.
It does add to the thrill, IMO. It leads to smarter driving, smarter choices for passing opportunities, and more realistic consequences for crashing.
Somewhere in there is a balance between realistic consequences, and making sure that guys who travel across the US to race get their full opportunity to have fun instead of sitting on the sidelines with a busted car. It does seem like you hit that balance pretty well.
Do you replacement spoiler in stock now. It not then a lot of people will have to get a new body just to compete in the race. In a real race if a car has body damage they do not come in the pits just to replace the part that broke, they keep on racing. If you require guys to have spoilers in the Scaleauto race you will eliminate the Mercedes and the B.M.W. due to their spoiler design.
Do you replacement spoiler in stock now. It not then a lot of people will have to get a new body just to compete in the race. In a real race if a car has body damage they do not come in the pits just to replace the part that broke, they keep on racing. If you require guys to have spoilers in the Scaleauto race you will eliminate the Mercedes and the B.M.W. due to their spoiler design.
Well, usually there are rules that let you tape the spoiler back in place. When it comes off, you have to make your way to the pits and secure it under green flag conditions. We had something like that in the Plafit Pan Am championships, so one of the racing decisions was "use the robust Carrera Corvette body, or the relatively flimsy Tamiya Porsche GT1 body". All the fastest teams used the Porsche body, but at least one of them had to take pit stops for body repairs.
Hi Mike, on a car designed and set up with a rear wing lose that in real racing and you certainly will not keep racing. You may be able to lap but at a greatly reduced pace. A car with a big wing on the back has it there to give down-force and rear end grip with that gone you would not have a hope in heck of running fast.
I race a BMW and have never lost the wing. Same with the Mercedes and Jag, it can be done. We ran a 24 hour race everyone started and finished with wings on their cars.
Also the Carbon Fiber /rubber wings will be out before this Event and will be allowed on the cars. But even with a hard plastic wing I have no problems, I re-enforce with Shoe Goo as allowed in the rules, some even use the MSC rubber also allowed, and race to protect the wing.
Of course if you feel the rear wing is too vulnerable for your driving style on those cars there is always the Porsche Cup car, those wings are almost unbreakable. OK anything is breakable if people don't want to be responsible, but certainly all my Loaner and Rental Porsche still have their original rear wings.
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It does add to the thrill, IMO. It leads to smarter driving, smarter choices for passing opportunities, and more realistic consequences for crashing.
Somewhere in there is a balance between realistic consequences, and making sure that guys who travel across the US to race get their full opportunity to have fun instead of sitting on the sidelines with a busted car. It does seem like you hit that balance pretty well.
Thank you Kurt, I deeply appreciate your comment, the idea is not to destroy someones car, race or fun. But it is to make people think about the driving, a little more realism added to Slot Car Racing.
I like all of these comments, as once you give it some thought, it makes sence. We can all learn a lesson in a different type of drivig during a race based on these rules for SCALE cars. This wil lrequire a new style of racing, trying to keep a fast pace while avoiding crashes and car body damge, which puts you in the pits under the green.
Can't wait to experience the BRM Challenge/ Scaleauto National, it will be a different racing experience. Maybe this is exactly what we need to grow SCALE racing in the US.
Now, if the manufacturers release vintage era cars (e.g. Can-Am, any and all 1960's GT cars, etc etc) i will be racing in slot car heaven: vintage era cars (as when slot car raceways opened in the mid 60's) with modern, well handling chassis
I raced a Scaleauto BMW in Chicago last year for the sprint race and shoo goo'd the wing struts. The wing snapped in half in a wreck where the center of the wing hit on the track border and the wing snapped - but the wing stayed on with shoo goo.
Sooooo if I drive really careful, stop while corner marshals put cars back on so there hand or sleeve doesn't knock my car into another lane I'll not have to worry about being a rider in someone else's lane? Terrific!
Oh but wait, what if someone else is being careless, wrecks, gets put in the wrong lane by the corner marshal and their rider (which we've determined is not a track call) flys across the track and hammers my car??? Not sure where my mistake was there unless it was not coaching the other driver on the pitfalls of driving like he is actually in a race.....
My point being this is slot racing and there is a place for track calls. No one likes them or wants very many but sure becomes a fan when it's there car heading down the straight in someone else's lane.....
Jason...my feelings precisely, however, track calls are not allowed in these races for any reason...period.
All the reasons you, I and others can communicate, relate, infer, hint, state, imply and otherwise indicate are not going to change the commitment to no track calls. The only reason I am aware of that will allow a track call is a problem with the track.
There is certainly a fine line between driving fast and driving reckless. Finding the balance between speed and avoiding wrecks and subsequent damage is what is going to win this event. I have raced in many, many, many national and regional races and have never seen a major event without track calls, but I understand that others have raced this format and have seen clean racing and no incidents caused by a lack of track calls. I am also aware of unfortnuate incidents in these races that could have been avoided by a simple track call.
That be as it may, I hope you and a large number of racers from Atlanta can make it up to New Jersey for this event. I am sure Jerry and his staff at The Race Place will do an awesome job of hosting and from what I hear Alan does a great job of running these events. I know Glen Orban and Robert Holt will help coordinate the event from the local racers standpoint as they race there on a regular basis.
I have heard a pretty large number of racers are going to partcipate so this promises to be a very fun, competitive and challenging event. I know the group that races BRM's and Scale Auto cars in the Northeast are pretty competitive and a great group of guys.
Having read Alan many replies on the BRM and Scale Auto intention and the issue of track calls it is appearant that he is doing his best to create a unique racing catagory and racing format.
As for me...I am supporting this event and in the process of building my first Scale Auto Porsche...and man...there sure are a lot of parts that can come off if it gets crashed (rider, or no rider)
...My point being this is slot racing and there is a place for track calls. No one likes them or wants very many but sure becomes a fan when it's there car heading down the straight in someone else's lane.....
Jason
Agreed there's a place for track calls; I just feel they should be reserved for extreme circumstances that, in my opinion, would not include riders. I can definitely relate to concerns over seeing what could be a 3-digit investment headed toward 'rapid devaluation', to put it mildly. I'm one who has more than once had their car in someone else's lane, under someone else's control who unknowingly sent my car into a crash that resulted in damage to the car. I've had my share of deslots, and my opinion here is not an indictment on anyone's ability to stay in their own lane. Obviously all riders are not attributed to a mistake by the driver. Drivers know going into a race that chances are their car will wind up in someone else's lane, whether by driver miscalculation of control, or if it's nerfed or marshalled into someone else's lane. There's times when I stayed "out of harm's way", but a marshall accedentally took my car running just fine in it's proper slot, into another lane under someone else's control.
I just happen to enjoy racing (especially in some kind of championship event) with as close to zero track calls much more than all the stoppages associated with track calls for riders, single or multiple car deslots, etc. If it's just "messin' around" or more casual racing, like we do monthly in NJ on Saturdays with BRM and Scale Auto cars, I know up front I'm probably in for a lot of track calls, so I try to still enjoy the experience. But if we have enough marshalls and the group is willing, I'd prefer close to zero track calls when casually racing as well. I just don't get much into the competitive side of things when all the track calls are involved.
I realize this is only slot car racing, so not everything has to parallel 1:1 scale racing, but in many hobbies and sports, the outcome of your performance is often affected by things beyond your control. Your car deslotting and under someone else's control is an example...but (here's a bit of a stretch) even that could simulate your car's brakes failing, as happens in 1:1 scale...
When racing with 'no track call for riders' rules, I knew what the rules were beforehand, and while I wasn't thrilled with my car damage, I chalked it up to one of those slot car racing deals, and still have a good time. I know others who feel the same way. I've raced in several races where riders are not track calls; the club I'm in that races weekly has that rule, no track calls for riders, and I much prefer racing that way, as a whole our club is getting used to it, races have a smoother flow, and we have more time spent racing. Having run in regional and national races with both sets of rules, I prefer when there's no track calls for riders, yet minimal track calls for exceptional events such as track damage or malfunction, and maybe a car landing on the floor at the drivers's stations. But again, I can understand those who feel differently.
Last edited by NJSLOT1_32; 07-25-2012 at 10:05 AM.
Reason: Re-worded first sentence.
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