Nice find - a few people may recognize the driver of the blue #24 John Buffum. Do you have a link to the site as I'm still looking through results sheets and photos and finding a few more odds and sods, including:
Chevy Vega - ran one race - Riverside 1972, was the last car running, 16th.
Renault 12 - another one race wonder - Portland 1972
Fiat 850 Sport Coupe - Marlboro 1966 - was looking at a shot of the start grid and realized there was at least one 850 Sport Coupe there, misidentified on the results sheets as Fiat Abarth (there's also two of those on the grid) - recognized it as a friend of mine had one, great little car (although a bit outgunned in U2)
Scott I don't think you've got the "proper" Abarth there. In `66 the only photo I can find is an Abarth which looks similar to this:
The only reference I could find for `66 Marlboro was an "Abarth" driven by Al Ackerly of Memphis which was a DNF.
In 1966 Fiat had 2 Abarth models this one below the Fiat 850 Abarth
and the 1966 Fiat 850 Sport Coupe Abarth
It's really hard to determine when these 1966 models became available in the US... the Marlboro race ran in August of `66.
Scott I don't think you've got the "proper" Abarth there...
My knowlwdge of what constitued an "Abarth" Fiat is pretty limited - my understanding was that it was that it was a hot rod shop specializing in Fiats (sort of like Cooper was with minis), so I guess any Fiat with some Abarth parts hung on it might be an "Abarth" Fiat
Anyway pretty certain there was at least one 850 Sport Coupe bodied car in the race (may have had a transplant 1000 engine if that was legal), see Photo 117 here: http://public.fotki.com/gwadagone/trans-am-racing1966/
The results sheet shows 3 Fiats in the race, Cuomo/Fischer (!) (6th), AckerlyBurrow (DNF) and Perlman/Beebee (DNF). Looking at picture #77 of the start grid, going from left to right it looks to me like: VW, Renault 8, NSU?, Fiat 850 Sport Coupe, Volvo 122, Renaut 8, Fiat Abarth 1000 TC*, Volvo 122, mini, Alfa ...
I think the Trans Am U2 rules was initially based on FIA Grp. 2 regulations from 1965 (which is listed here). The FIA regulations was then updated in 1969 and again in 1971, but I think SCCA started to modify the FIA regulations for use in TA around 1970, so I don't know how close they followed the FIA regulations.
Anyway, here is what I found in the 1971 FIA Grp 2 "Special touring cars" regulation (appendix J):
From looking at the 1972 Lime Rock and Bryar photos I'd say you were right! Clearly the same cars were racing in both races and series, with the flares being constant. Looks like Group 2 flares were the rule!
But that opens a can of worms...as the Spirit BMW and the TeamSlot Capri (and my flared version) are Group 2 or Rally bodies. The Team Slot Capri is a 1970-1972 model, (no "ducktail")
I had some time today so I did some research on the cars that ran last year or have been suggested for this year, and I did a spreadsheet comparing the real car dimensions to 1.32 scale and if I had a copy of one of the slot cars I measured them as well. I don't know how to post an excel sheet, but it anyone wants it, I can forward it to you!
I had some time today so I did some research on the cars that ran last year or have been suggested for this year, and I did a spreadsheet comparing the real car dimensions to 1.32 scale and if I had a copy of one of the slot cars I measured them as well. ...
This spreadsheet is available at: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...3MzRlR1E#gid=0
I did a bit of reformatting and rearrangement, so if something seems amiss, blame me, not MRollingthunder. This is neither a complete NOR (at least not at the monent) a definitive list of what models are or are not allowed in the proxy, it is just more information for the discussion.
cheers
Scott
P.S. a couple of notes:
1) models without any data need info - if you have one of these and can make the measurements, let MRollingthunder or myself know and we'll fill it in.
2) track in real cars is measured between the center of the treads, for some reason the slot car community can't seem to grasp this concept and insists on measuring slot car "track" from outside of one tire to the outside of the opposite tire. To keep these two views in congruence, I have assumed a 7mm wide front tire and a 9mm wide rear tire and adjusted the appropriate 1/32 actual tread by this amount.
Last edited by GT6; 07-27-2012 at 03:24 PM.
Reason: P.S.
A few comments on the database
Fly Produces only GTam(flared) GTAj(flared) and GTV(non flared) no GTA
AutoArt produces only GTam(flared)
GTA(non flared) is only produced by Team Slot
Aaaarrrrgh! Why didn't SCCA just throw out any Alfa that showed up wearing those fat GTAm fenders!. Would have made figuring out what cars to allow in Pony Wars sooooo much easier. Regardless, thanks for the info Alexis
So reality with TransAm Alfas, as near as I can piece together was something like this:
From 1966 to 1969 only Alfa GTAs with no visible flares.
1970 small flares appear on GTAs.
Fall 1970 (Kent and Riverside) a GTA with GTAm grill (4 headlight) and fenders (wide flares) competes, allegedly as a marketing promotion for the upcoming release of the GTV (similar grill) These were still GTAs not GTAms because of the narrower tread (no record of a GTAm ever running in Trans Am - probably not legal as they were made in very small numbers).
From late 1970 to end of series in 1972 GTAs and GTVs with small flares (not GTAm type fenders).
So what's in and what's out?
Allow all models and just let the 2.1" max tread rule sort things out?
Ban 'em all as overscale and make whover wants to run an Alfa fab a proper GTA/GTV body?
Ban all GTAm and wide flare GTAs because there is no record of them ever competing in Trans Am?
Only allow Fly models because while overscale they are handicapped by front motor and more realistic in appearance, disallow Team Slot Alfas as too much overscale and not close enough in appearance to TransAm cars (may have been modeled after mid/late 70s European racers)? (No idea of size of AutoArt GTAm - if realistic, allow, if oversize, disallow)
I'm inclined to be in favour of the last option. Other opinions?
2) track in real cars is measured between the center of the treads, for some reason the slot car community can't seem to grasp this concept and insists on measuring slot car "tread " from outside of one tire to the outside of the opposite tire. To keep these two views in congruence, I have assumed a 7mm wide front tire and a 9mm wide rear tire and adjusted the appropriate 1/32 actual tread by this amount.[/quote]
You are correct, As a long ago Auto mechanics and design teacher, I should have used the correct term which is track width and the proper measurement technique. So the measurements for the slot cars could be corrected, but the factory 1:1 numbers should be accurate! Thanks for the help and for posting.
2) track in real cars is measured between the center of the treads, for some reason the slot car community can't seem to grasp this concept and insists on measuring slot car "tread " from outside of one tire to the outside of the opposite tire.
Some rules committees have a way of over-complicating something that could be so simple (like measuring at the center of the tire).
While the slot car community may not have "grasped" this way to measure track, I can ensure you I will be measuring outside-to-outside of the tires. It's, simply put, a much easier way to regulate and enforce the guidelines.
...While the slot car community may not have "grasped" this way to measure track, I can ensure you I will be measuring outside-to-outside of the tires. It's, simply put, a much easier way to regulate and enforce the guidelines.
Fully realized and appreciated - just have to stir that pot one more time.
I seem to have broken my declaration of silence on further discussion (again ), hereby resolve to make one more try and go buy one of Greenman's Vitesse bodies so I have something to keep me VERY busy between now and start deadline.
IMO with the maximum rear width limited in the rules there is no advantage to be gained with running a wider body, so why not still allow the other Alfa,s?
During 1971 Kwetch,s car was reported in several publications as being a GTA m as it had flares that looked very similar. The car was built in his work shop and was a GTV and still used the GTV motor.
This car appears to change during the year or he has two cars that he competed in?
Some rules committees have a way of over-complicating something that could be so simple (like measuring at the center of the tire).
While the slot car community may not have "grasped" this way to measure track, I can ensure you I will be measuring outside-to-outside of the tires. It's, simply put, a much easier way to regulate and enforce the guidelines.
At what point are you measuring the tires? How will you measure an R tire?
IMO with the maximum rear width limited in the rules there is no advantage to be gained with running a wider body, so why not still allow the other Alfa,s?
A wider body will have slightly lower center of gravity, so there is a slight advantage there.
- a few people may recognize the driver of the blue #24 John Buffum
. Do you have a link to the site as I'm still looking through results sheets and photos and finding a few more odds and sods, including:
)
. Would have made figuring out what cars to allow in Pony Wars sooooo much easier. Regardless, thanks for the info Alexis 
So the measurements for the slot cars could be corrected, but the factory 1:1 numbers should be accurate! Thanks for the help and for posting.
.
), hereby resolve to make one more try and go buy one of Greenman's Vitesse bodies so I have something to keep me VERY busy between now and start deadline
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