Licensing Issues/ Questions for Specific Race Cars
Is anybody familiar with the specifics of licensing agreements slotcar manufacturers have to go through with reproducing a specific car body? Does it have to do with the body style itself, or using the correct name of the car? I'm asking this because I was looking through old advertisments for Racemasters /AFX, and they originally referred to the Daytona Cobra (with SRT chassis) as "Super Coupes"; that seems to suggest that they did not have license to use the name Daytona Cobra, or the name Shelby as well (that seemed to have changed with time). Here is another example: the original short nosed Porsche 917-10 named the "510". Maybe it was simply misnamed, maybe not; I just don't know, but why not call it a Porsche 917 unless there was some issue? Since we have cast resin builders making Ferrari's for sale (from overseas, I believe), are they ignored by Ferrari themselves due to low volume, because they do use the correct designations on their HO scale car bodies. Or, do they have a side agreement with Ferrari? It's my understanding that a 1/32 scale slotcar manufacturer has the "exclusive" licensing agreement to produce Ferrari cars (used to be with Mattel, but was not renewed). I'm no lawyer, but since pictures of Ferrari racecars throughout the history of motorsport have been in the public domain for years, how could any company contest the reproduction of said images? Maybe the name "Ferrari" could not be used, but if so, call them something else (as was done with the previously mentioned "Super Coupes").
My reasons for asking are simple: I want to have more Ferrari examples in my stable of cars. The entire "P" series of sports prototypes; what Ferrari aficianado wouldn't want those? Ferrari GTO, both original '62 & rebodied '64. The '68 312P(both spyder & coupe version), or redone 512 S or M (made slightly larger than the AFX version). Or, any number of cars we have yet to see (Group 7 / Can-Am & Interserie cars). I'm not asking Tomy/Racemasters to make all these at once (I can wish, though); I'm just wondering if this "licensing bottleneck" to produce these cars can't be solved. Any thoughts would be welcome, as I can't be the only one who feels this way.....
The whole thing is a nightmare, even once you have the licence. Knowing what I know I am grateful when an HO company produces anything at all that needs one.
In the case of Ferrari, Carrera currently have worldwide exclusive rights. That does not mean nobody else can produce the cars but they have to get permission from Carrera to do so and display Carrera logos on their packaging.
I don't know the specifics about licensing for car manufacturers for reproduction of their brand, but in collecting cars (not just slot cars), my boys and I have found that Ferrari is one of the, if not THE, most represented manufacturer in scale cars from toys in the youngest demographic on up to adult diecast collectibles. This is just a general observation from years of collecting and I have no data to support this. Just needed to add the disclaimer before I get flamed for my comments.
different manufactures have different license rules as well.
domestic makers like ford and chevy are the worst with license contracts, you have to buy a license for a certain number and if you want a rerun then you have to start another contract.
my understanding is toyota and honda are very lax and want to get there product image out with less restrictions.
porsche, ferrari are suppose to be easy to deal with, sometimes a manufacturer just wants to be asked and then they let you go to town.
Lambo locked down license some years ago.
then you get into major problems with defunct car companies who owns the rights and where do you have to go to get permission.
in 2005 some toy companies started to make cars that looked like real cars but not quite and then they wouldnt deal with licenses.
some concept cars do not need a license that is why there was a big rush of challenger, camaro concept car models. these are different from production cars.
then as talked about exclusive licenses.
People that repop bodies or decals could be in trouble depending on how vigilant a company is to protect its name and also the amount of reproductions. if you made 5 bodies they might not bat and eye and you could claim it was art you made. if the quantity is low then you are not worth the legal fees.
or you could just have your stuff made in china, they don't listen to global copy write laws you could setup a shell office in china and sell out of there. i know people in the toy industry that have pulled that stuff in the past. with the internet it impossible to control.
now on the decals i have made as reproductions i have been contacted by companies, however since i am non-profit and made the decals as freeware they have no problems with me, i have even been contacted by some companies praising me for my papercraft work and giving them free advertizing.
If i make something 100% my own then i can sell it legally, and i have in the past.
you have to be careful with artwork and photos as well. public domain stuff verse licensed stock photos can be a big deal.
Some years ago i made Business to business greeting cards and i had a wonderful time trying to secure all the license agreements for the stock photos i wanted to alter.
pretty much ruined the profit margin the concept fizzed out as companies went online using facebook and linkin etc... so it wasn't a sustainable idea.
last thing on shelby,,, dealing with that company is pure hell.
Last edited by slotcardan; 08-21-2012 at 11:03 AM.
makes me posting pointless but..... my understanding is it's something between a colonoscopy and that VD thing they do with that long stick- painful.
And why? Money, greed & arrogance?
Yes, I can see how having a name on a SLOT CAR might be a big deal.
Would you not think these greedy companies would provide parameters and be happy for the excitement and exposure.
I don't know- I'm probably naive and a dreamer.
Thanks, Dan. This explanation helps a lot. We had noticed a LOT of concept Camaros and Corvettes popping up everywhere.
Quote:
Originally Posted by slotcardan
you could just have your stuff made in china, they don't listen to global copy write laws you could setup a shell office in china and sell out of there. i know people in the toy industry that have pulled that stuff in the past. with the internet it impossible to control.
As for unlicensed items made in China, I have experience with this and while it is impossible for these companies to control on the Internet, U.S. Customs is doing their best to keep these items from coming into the country.
true except when you import items under a gift, you would be amazed how many small toys fit in a box. :-).
there are ways around dealing with VAT as well i used to deal heavy in stuff from china and europe.
Also its not so much "And why? Money, greed & arrogance?" there is the need to protect a name and a quality level. for example Years ago a company made a rip off toy from a small manufacturer the ripoff toy was a good copy except it would catch fire. so somebody bought the copy, thought it was original and sued the licensed manufacturer it was a big deal proving the item was in fact a fake, but the reputation was hurt for the same toy company.
other end of the spectrum is letting the door open then everything under the sun gets your logo on it and the brand gets watered down to the point that if you wanted to make something official it has no market.
now this happened to ford and in 2006 they Clamped down hard to the point they sued anybody that used the name mustang.
Shelby pulled the same garbage they sued the shelby registry in attempt to claim all the work they did as a private entity belonged to shelby just cause of the name.
you can understand if somebody makes a body design and wants max profit and locks down the design and fights to keep it, sometimes a heart and soul goes into a project and you see it fall apart by somebody making knock offs.
then you have another side of things the end user that just wants something hard to get and doesn't understand all this nonsense, hard line to walk since i've been on all sides at some point.
The whole thing is a nightmare, even once you have the licence. Knowing what I know I am grateful when an HO company produces anything at all that needs one.
In the case of Ferrari, Carrera currently have worldwide exclusive rights. That does not mean nobody else can produce the cars but they have to get permission from Carrera to do so and display Carrera logos on their packaging.
In other words, don't hold your breath.
Nico, thanks for reminding me that Carrera had the Ferrari rights. Makes me wonder, though, how Micro Scalextric was able to offer the Ferrari in their sets, or those who offer Lexan Ferrari bodies; are all these approved under a license agreement? If a detailed Ferrari body (or any body modeled after a particular car / manufacturer) is labeled generically (say, as a sports prototype, or whatever the class of racecar it is) and sold without company logos, does that escape the scrutineering of lawyers? Seems to me that a manufacturer like Ferrari would want their cars reproduced in all scales(certainly would expand the brand to youngsters & hobbyists), as long as they can approve the final design (wouldn't want a badly detailed Ferrari out there),and since Carrera doesn't make the smaller scale, why not allow another manufacturer the option?
true except when you import items under a gift, you would be amazed how many small toys fit in a box. :-).
there are ways around dealing with VAT as well i used to deal heavy in stuff from china and europe.
Also its not so much "And why? Money, greed & arrogance?" there is the need to protect a name and a quality level. for example Years ago a company made a rip off toy from a small manufacturer the ripoff toy was a good copy except it would catch fire. so somebody bought the copy, thought it was original and sued the licensed manufacturer it was a big deal proving the item was in fact a fake, but the reputation was hurt for the same toy company.
other end of the spectrum is letting the door open then everything under the sun gets your logo on it and the brand gets watered down to the point that if you wanted to make something official it has no market.
now this happened to ford and in 2006 they Clamped down hard to the point they sued anybody that used the name mustang.
Shelby pulled the same garbage they sued the shelby registry in attempt to claim all the work they did as a private entity belonged to shelby just cause of the name.
you can understand if somebody makes a body design and wants max profit and locks down the design and fights to keep it, sometimes a heart and soul goes into a project and you see it fall apart by somebody making knock offs.
then you have another side of things the end user that just wants something hard to get and doesn't understand all this nonsense, hard line to walk since i've been on all sides at some point.
and man can it get heated trust me
It does appear to be a slippery slope legally, doesn't it? So, in the meantime I can only get some of the models I or others want to have by ordering cast resin kits (sometimes heavy/ can be expensive/ can be brittle and break easily) or less detailed Lexan bodies. Not a happy state of affairs.......
yup it sucks, and it gets worse with larger scale models.
you can imagine the joy i had with 1/10 scale bodies, decals, etc...
look at tyco i think they have maybe 20 bodies styles, after that its been repaints and reusing the same bodies for almost 40 years.
Thats what makes AW a blessing and a curse, they have all those nice new bodies in addition to the old one, and they still won't make the cars i really want GURRRR
All good points. I know that one of the sites I used to visit was WRXSTi.com and after a few years Subaru said "no more, guys" because the site was being linked to them, the content attributed to them, etc
I get it- it just bugs me when Steve wants to put a livery on a car and it's a staggering production.
Wasn't there a "Canon" issue on a car? That's the kind of stuff that bugs me.
I get it- and there need to be procedures and things need to be done right- I just wish it was all a bit easier.
All good points. I know that one of the sites I used to visit was WRXSTi.com and after a few years Subaru said "no more, guys" because the site was being linked to them, the content attributed to them, etc
I get it- it just bugs me when Steve wants to put a livery on a car and it's a staggering production.
Wasn't there a "Canon" issue on a car? That's the kind of stuff that bugs me.
I get it- and there need to be procedures and things need to be done right- I just wish it was all a bit easier.
I love the random double-posts... and only here. It does take an awfully long time to load, but I don't do anything twice, don't re-click... nothing!
Kinda funny eh, Minolta has been defunct for nearly 10 years now...
Perhaps had more people seen a cool slot car by a great brand like AFX, they would have been inclined to go buy more Minolta cameras, and copiers, possibly having kept them afloat...
Licensing Issues/ Questions for Specific Race Cars
Just needed to add the disclaimer before I get flamed for my comments. 
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