I made my own Pioneer Camaro quite a while back. I had a Hornby 69 Camaro and mounted it on top of a Pioneer T/A chassis that was being sold separately. It is still one of my favorite T/A cars and quicker than my Scaley Camaros.
Isn't that Cheatin'? the guys I race with won't let ME do that. Such sacrilege.
But back to the subject. Pioneer will release only 650 of each their new '68 Camaro at a time. And now we have to pre-order them to guarantee the one we want. Who is our fastest dealer when we want them FIRST? Who will not gouge us? Who will not take the money in advance of shipping when they arrive? Time to go shopping boys!
Personally I think the "Limited Edition" and boxed versions from the mfrs stinks. Unless you guys are box collectors. And if that's the case I got a basement full of em. But you can't race 'em.
Maybe someday I'll build a limited edition box and put a motor, wheels and pickup on it and see if I can drive it. (They already did that, it's called a Monogram Galaxie)
Personally I think the "Limited Edition" and boxed versions from the mfrs stinks.
But its the (almost) guaranteed sales which justifies the business case for design, tooling and production. That means us normal guys can buy some great cars.
The higher price and a fancy cardboard box do not guarantee a thing. It actually alienates some racers who would rather buy one in the plain plastic case instead. Sometimes I think only the nerds save the boxes. They take up space too. In fact if mfrs boxed the cars in plain white cardboard like the old 1/25 promos, it could prove popular. Save the customer some money. Possibly avaoid the reputation as a gouger. People jump out of a hobby as fast as they jump into it. Don't chase them away. (By the way, the cost of tooling and production should be forecast by people who know what they are doing, and pick the right subject in the first place.
I'm just sayin"
Last edited by silverhelmet; 10-26-2012 at 04:45 PM.
Reason: sp
Limited editions, (the following has been edited, cut down/added to/amended from a similar post on HRW.
silverhelmet. I have more than a hunch that you have either been – or still are - directly involved in the business side of slot cars but I’ll assume that your comments about limited editions are based purely on your personal feelings, leaving your business head parked temporarily. Therefore I’ll retort to your posts based on that assumption so please correct me if I am wrong.
I understand your concerns regarding the Limited Edition aspect but, in reality, we are making enough to go round.
The very welcome keen attitude and positive buying signals received on the grapevine does not actually translate into sales of multiple 1000’s of any particular model – regardless of how you package them, nicely boxed, plain packets, poly bags or whatever. No matter how you extrapolate the math, enthusiastic signals from across all the slot car forums does not equate to mega sales.
Supply and demand has to be monitored very carefully, especially in such a low margin product. I anticipate that the true ‘must buy’ sales figures – on the board right now from genuine buyers – does not exceed 400 units for, say, the Al Green example. That will leave a few hundred to filter through for the buyers who just happen upon them over the next year or so.
All the newly announced models are available to order right now – the dealers have the info. Backed up by a soft marketing campaign across all international forums, social media on FB and Twitter and an email broadcast system will ensure that anyone that has expressed an interest will be aware of these models. Sure, in a few years time if a new slot guy gets interested in picking up some Pioneer models he may have a hard time finding a LE example at a regular price but that is very normal across all brands.
The costs involved in concept and design (European charges) and the tool making and production costs in China are rising at an unsustainable rate – enough of an increase to cause great concern. There will be some HUGE changes in production techniques and volumes of the next couple of years from all the makers. I dare say you will see an increase in the number of new makers who start small slot car businesses that chew at the edges of the main market and sweep up some customers with a demographic profile that wants, and is still financially able, to satisfy a desire to purchase, hi-detail, hi-quality small-scale electric model cars.
In the light of much disappointing sales news (all public domain knowledge) from many other makers, we must accept that the market for slot cars over the last few years is, at the very best, a level line. The ‘churn’ of buyers to which you refer (jumping in and out of the hobby) is very real. The maker has to be smart without ticking off its core ‘racing’ buyer but the maker must also provide a product that is desirable to the biggest sales sector which is the slot car collector.
Although this explanation might stick in the craw of some potential buyers that regard the avid collector as a curse to the real ‘racer’ and a precursor to gouging by several entrepreneurial types, it is a plain fact that if you offer a “no pressure to buy, come on down to the store any old time” buying technique then that is exactly what will happen. Sometimes the “any old time” can take years. Neither dealers nor makers can stand to carry stale inventory.
I’m not in this business to make serious wedge. I’m doing it because I wanted to. If I wanted a high turnover, high profit business, I have plenty of options and would turn back to what I was doing previously. I made a conscious decision to do business in a micro sub-sector (slot cars) of a small industry (hobbies). My time and financial commitments have been substantial and the rewards have been pleasing without being exciting from a monetary point of view.
If I leave this business in a decade or so having created a line of slot cars that folks both enjoyed racing and collecting then I will be modestly pleased with myself. In the meantime, I shall continue to take the risks involved in this business but in a mildly guarded way and will remain grateful to buyers, old and new, who consider purchasing a Pioneer brand slot car a worthwhile way of parting with hard-earned income.
I hope the above has explained the situation a little.
If I leave this business in a decade or so having created a line of slot cars that folks both enjoyed racing and collecting then I will be modestly pleased with myself. In the meantime, I shall continue to take the risks involved in this business but in a mildly guarded way and will remain grateful to buyers, old and new, who consider purchasing a Pioneer brand slot car a worthwhile way of parting with hard-earned income.
I appreciate your efforts Jules. No doubt there are easier ways to make money but you're obviously a man of resources who can afford to venture into something that you are sincerely interested in and thus bring some nice creations into the world. You're products are excellent. The Mustangs and Chargers are top-notch and pre-production pics of the Camaro look superb! As a collector and a racer I'll be buying at least one of each for the shelf and dupes of my favorites for the track. I hope one day we'll see Pioneer Javelins, Challengers and other Trans Am cars on dealer's shelves. I know that takes time....
and the tool making and production costs in China are rising at an unsustainable rate – enough of an increase to cause great concern.
A very nice explanation of how things are from Jules. I have picked out just a single statement for commentary. It seems like many other manufacturers have realized that not only are costs going up in China, but this is being equaled by a lack of stability in terms of how committed the factory is to meeting both time and quality schedules.
I find it quite interesting that Hornby has apparently decided not to have its plastic model kits produced in China, but has moved to a slightly higher cost but more stable production locale; India. I have heard, but cannot confirm that they have plans to move production of their other lines out of China for the same reasons that have plagued Jules over the past year.
Jules is also quite correct in his assessment of the 'flatness' of the hobby, but then this is pretty much the way it is with all hobbies in the last few years. With the near-destruction of the middle class in the last few years due to economic pressures, there is less that is being spent on 'frivolous' enterprises as a larger percentage of income is going to basics.
I really appreciate Jules' input and can say that his comments are spot on. I am sorry to say that my very limited income prohibits me from pre-ordering anything. If I end up with recreational funds I shop to fill needs and then wants. I currently have 5 Pioneer cars and will be buying more. I have exposed some others that I race with, to the Pioneer brand and they are pre-ordering some of the new releases. It is very good to know that guys like Jules actually read and respond to us on these forums, we may not get the immediate results we would prefer as far as the products go, but that is the way it is.
Yes it is true I do have some background and had a little inside contact with the manufacturing side of the slot car hobby. But that does not mean that I am well informed. I only talk from my own personal feelings about fancy boxes and limited editions. But I have spent a career in sales and understand marketing. Or think I do. So do what you have to do.
I am a big supporter of Pioneer, Jules, and we have shared thoughts regarding your products before. The U.S. market is honored to have Pioneer enter it. You have an ambitious line and I sincerely hope everyone who reads this blog has had the opportunity to enjoy your products and will be lucky enough to enjoy them far into the future. Sometimes I think the hobby is not understood in the USA as well as it should be. But one of the key factors to improving the hobby is better quality products for not only the hard-core enthusiast, but also the guy who is trying it out. I think you are doing that. As well as can be expected for the economy we are suffering right now.
Don't give up, Jules. Those obstacles are just hurdles. Someday we can open a Pioneer factory in Peoria. You and me.
May be a little off subject, but the wife is still impatiently waiting for that Dukes of Hazzard General Lee Dodge Charger to be made. I am sure once it is available, we will be getting one (at least one) and I will have the challenge of converting it to SCX Digital.
I look forward to the Camaro and have the Donohue and Green Camaros pre-ordered. I will also pick up the other non-limited Camaros and kits eventually as well.
I know the Legends are also in the works as is the DoH Charger. I'm sure others may be tired of them by now but being a Mustang fan, will we be seeing any more liveries of the Mustangs in either fastback or notchback form?
Brian
Last edited by zilger; 10-28-2012 at 01:35 PM.
Reason: Corrected the spelling of Mr Donohue's last name. No disrespect meant.
I've written "Donohue" many dozens of times over the last few years for one reason or another and I reckon I got the spelling correct. Curiously enough, even when I know full well I have spelt it correctly, I still double check to make sure I have not swapped the o for an a.
A few weeks ago I was getting some copy together and unwittingly copied out a sentence I had written 18 months ago. Unfortunately, that one sentence included "Donahue". From that cut and paste it scattered across many items of written work without me being alerted to it.
We, Pioneer, have recently been responsible for "Donaghue". This was a phone call about barcode label text on the Donahue car box that resulted in the listener writing down Donaghue. Horrid, I know.
Only recently have some occurrences of Camero been changed to Camaro on the website. So simple, really.
If the barcode label turns out as: P018, Cheivfrolet Camero Zee-28, Mark Donaghue, Seebring 12hr, you will know our spellchecker system has completely failed.
Such sacrilege. 
guys can buy some great cars.
As a collector and a racer I'll be buying at least one of each for the shelf and dupes of my favorites for the track. I hope one day we'll see Pioneer Javelins, Challengers and other Trans Am cars on dealer's shelves. I know that takes time....
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