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  #1  
Old 11-24-2018, 08:01 AM
RichD RichD is offline
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Default Fray Armatures Wanted

A fellow racer just asked me if I could spare a Fray/T-Jet SS type pancake armature, but I am out of those. The ones that I use have not been available for some time, so I looked over my list of bookmarks to see what else might be available. I already knew that Alan Galinko and Daniel Cardinale were out of business. When I checked Dynamic Armatures that was gone as well. The only places that I could find quickly that still have worked up armatures were Denis Rutherford's and ECHORR Jets.
In the past I have paid good money for armatures that looked good at first glance, but were actually only mediocre performers on the track at best. That is what you get if someone tries to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. You might be able to improve on a junk arm, but it will just be a better junk arm that will never win a race.
So I was hoping that there still might be other active sources out there. Another area of interest would be people that do custom winds.

Last edited by RichD; 11-24-2018 at 08:15 AM.
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  #2  
Old 11-25-2018, 09:05 PM
slotking slotking is offline
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some the best ones I have used are ones I balanced myself with the VRP arm tool.


you can also try the dash arms.


als maybe onestopshop or mcvittie(spelling ?) arms
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  #3  
Old 11-26-2018, 08:07 AM
RichD RichD is offline
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1 Stop Slot Shop has not had any Tornado armatures for some time, you can get one in a complete rolling chassis for only $199.99 however.
HOCOC does not allow Dash armatures in its T-Jet SS class, the 2 lamination 16 ohm arms are allowed in several other classes that use stock Aurora armatures. We wanted to keep our T-Jet SS class in line with other groups that run that sort of car.
You may have seen my review of the 2nd generation T-Dash car and the 3 lamination 16 ohm armatures, those were not available when the rules for this season were issued, they will be legal for the 2019-2020 season.
I expect that a worked up Dash 3 lamination 16 ohm armature would be competitive. The 2 lamination arms work great in a box stock type car and in a HOCOC Jalopy or Indy type car, they don't have quite enough power for a winning Fray or T-Jet SS car.
In any case I am looking for arms that can win when the competition consists of experienced racers.
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  #4  
Old 11-26-2018, 03:59 PM
gvianco gvianco is offline
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I think it is about time for the powers that be start allowing Dash parts into the t jet ss class or develop another race class for dash. What about using AW parts. The ohm limit of 48 could still be maintained as well as use of slip on tires option or required.
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  #5  
Old 11-26-2018, 04:53 PM
RichD RichD is offline
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HOCOC already allows the T-Dash chassis to be run in the T-Jet SS class. We have a separate class for JL/AW cars in SS trim except that they must use slip-on tires. The T-Dash chassis is also legal and either the JL/AW or 3 lamination 14 ohm Dash armature may be used.
Dan Cashmer has already announced that he will be ending the production of T-Dash cars soon.
Probably a discussion of this sort belongs on its own thread. Someone is still looking for a legal competitive Aurora armature.
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  #6  
Old 11-26-2018, 06:43 PM
JimDouglasJr JimDouglasJr is offline
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...or maybe it's just time to relax the weirdly specific rules and exclusions for racing this now 50+ year old chassis.
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  #7  
Old 11-26-2018, 06:56 PM
smalltime smalltime is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimDouglasJr View Post
...or maybe it's just time to relax the weirdly specific rules and exclusions for racing this now 50+ year old chassis.
Gee...There's an idea.

Change one rule.
Allow any pinion gear. now your detuning the arm.
Much easier circle to square.
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  #8  
Old 11-27-2018, 11:01 AM
SouthShoreRacing SouthShoreRacing is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichD View Post
HOCOC does not allow Dash armatures in its T-Jet SS class, the 2 lamination 16 ohm arms are allowed in several other classes that use stock Aurora armatures. We wanted to keep our T-Jet SS class in line with other groups that run that sort of car.
HOPRA, The Fray, and the East Coast Outlaws all allow the DASH 16 ohm 2 lam and 3 lam arms.

At the HOPRA nats and in the Outlaws the 2 lam DASH arms have been competitive. They have cracked the top 10 at the Nats and have won races in the Outlaws.
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  #9  
Old 11-27-2018, 02:42 PM
smalltime smalltime is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthShoreRacing View Post
HOPRA, The Fray, and the East Coast Outlaws all allow the DASH 16 ohm 2 lam and 3 lam arms.

At the HOPRA nats and in the Outlaws the 2 lam DASH arms have been competitive. They have cracked the top 10 at the Nats and have won races in the Outlaws.
The Fray doesn't run brakes. All of the other groups do.

It would be very hard for the dash arms to compete without brakes.
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  #10  
Old 11-28-2018, 07:27 AM
RichD RichD is offline
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When I was testing the latest T-Dash chassis with the 3 lamination 16 ohm armature I noticed that I needed at least some brakes. Since the car had a 9 tooth drive pinion and my T-Jet SS cars mostly have 12 tooth drive pinions I was a little surprised by that, but I chalked it up to the large diameter of the rear tires. That car also had magnets that were about halfway in strength between the strongest T-Jet magnets and JL/AW or earlier Dash magnets. Switching to stronger magnets was a help. I have some Aurora Super II magnets that are stronger, I would normally put those in a car that has a rewound armature, but they may work with the new Dash arm.
It looks like I may have a little spare time on my hands, so perhaps I will be able to test a worked up Dash armature in a T-Jet SS chassis. My club runs these cars with brakes, usually I have the brakes turned off or I might use minimal brakes.
While there has been a debate on replacement armatures nobody has come forward with sources for Aurora armatures.

Last edited by RichD; 11-29-2018 at 07:57 AM.
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  #11  
Old 11-30-2018, 10:36 AM
JimDouglasJr JimDouglasJr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichD View Post
While there has been a debate on replacement armatures nobody has come forward with sources for Aurora armatures.
How long did anyone really expect the NOS stuff to hold out? It's already an oddity-bordering-on-enigma that there have been so many for so long.

With so many armatures, magnets, and gears out there, and no spending limit, maybe it's time to just let people build fast, good handling cars with whatever combination of parts they happen to have.
What's everyone afraid of?


Oh, wait, that the guy with the $15 car might kick an $80 car's @$$. Been there.

Last edited by JimDouglasJr; 11-30-2018 at 10:40 AM.
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  #12  
Old 11-30-2018, 12:16 PM
SouthShoreRacing SouthShoreRacing is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smalltime View Post
The Fray doesn't run brakes. All of the other groups do.

It would be very hard for the dash arms to compete without brakes.
Outlaws do not run brake. If it is a bigger track, you can do well with a DASH arm. That being said, you can absolutely get more out of it with brake.
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  #13  
Old 12-01-2018, 05:38 AM
RichD RichD is offline
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Default Dash Armature Testing

I did some testing with a Dash 3 lamination 16 ohm armature yesterday. I wanted to see if those would be competitive with a good worked up Aurora 16 ohm Fray/T-Jet SS armature. First I ran a T-Jet SS car with a Tornado arm that cost $28, the best lap time was a 5.691 on my ~50 foot MaxTrax. The car had a JL '70 Camaro body. I had faced off a Dash arm that measured 16.8 ohms on all three poles using a drill press. I epoxy balanced the arm using a magnetic balancer, it only took a tiny dab of epoxy on two of the poles to get the balance nearly perfect. With the Dash arm the car turned a 5.654, with the Aurora arm the car had a little more punch, but it was harder to get a perfect lap. With both arms I had the brakes turned on, but the control was turned all the way down. The track record with my best car using the same body is 5.527, that car cost $160.
The Dash arms cost $6.99 or $5.00 if you bought ten at a time.
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  #14  
Old 12-01-2018, 06:50 AM
smalltime smalltime is offline
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I can't find them any more.

I do not think they are available any longer.
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  #15  
Old 12-01-2018, 10:00 AM
RichD RichD is offline
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Dash products are now mostly being sold on a closed Facebook site, you have to be on a list to visit that site. If you are interested you might contact Dan Cashmer and ask to be added to the list.
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