SCI Logo

Scalextric USA
Pioneer Slot Cars
SCIs  MarketPlace, the online slot car mall
Carrera Slot Cars
Fly Model Car
BRM Model Cars
NINCO
MRC
AFX
Slot.it
Slot Car Illustrated Forum

Go Back   Slot Car Illustrated Forum > Scale Racing > The Paddock

View Poll Results: Do people cheat?
Most people do cheat 22 27.85%
Most people do not cheat 57 72.15%
Voters: 79. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-30-2009, 12:53 AM
antslake's Avatar
antslake antslake is offline
International Racer
View antslake's Photo Album
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Greenwood Lake NY
Posts: 502
Default Cheating

So this word seems to get thrown around a bit. I was wondering how everyone felt in general about it, and how widespread do you think cheating is?
What about people who accuse of cheating?
In real life, and on the forums!
Of course this is focused on competition, not casual home racing.
Have you ever been accused of cheating?
Have you ever cheated? LOL
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-30-2009, 01:58 AM
lindseyangell's Avatar
lindseyangell lindseyangell is offline
Championship Contender
View lindseyangell's Photo Album
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Leavenworth,KS USA 66048
Posts: 1,528
Default

Cheating is something the Rules cover and usually the Tech Inspectors are experienced enough to call teh shots. If you don't like the rules, the tech inspector and you think you are right anyway then sometimes the Race Director/usually the Owner will step in and tell you the saem thing the tech inspectors are saying. It is difficult to be the one to FAIL a car but sometimes it has to be done. In the Spirit of Racing sometimes Rules are not always enough. Crew Ciefs on real race cars push the boundaries ALL of the time. It is the Intent of the rules that are implied and not all necessarily in writing. Say a fuel tank can only be 20 gallons...by adding a fuel hose that goes from the inlet to the opposite side of the car then back to the tank itself you gain several gallons of fuel...while not in writing, the Tech Inspectors said NO GO...I thinkk the same applies for cars in our racing. I know as a matter of fact that Tech Inspections for R/C cars use to be Before the race...So you would put on a pair of tires that just passed and by the end of the race they were worn enough that they would NOT have passed the Quality Control Inspectors testing...but the rules were very detailed and said "Before" not After the race they were to be measured for chassis clearance. Cheating is something some people can live with. Personally I like the rules and trying to find a way to shift weight or to change thigns so that I'm still legal. In the older days of racing slot cars, I think you can still find it...they use to put ball bearings in the brass chassis tubes that rolled aft for accelerating and forward for stopping... thereby changing the balance of the car. When it comes to adding weight to a car you can use it to beef up parts like the front body post with bronze tubing, rear body post or even at the motor if you use the right materials. Changing plastic tailpipes Bronze or aluminum, replacing your interior with a Lexan interior, There are may ways to cheat but why if you are competing?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-30-2009, 04:05 AM
obscenegreen917...k's Avatar
obscenegreen917...k obscenegreen917...k is offline
International Racer
View obscenegreen917...k's Photo Album
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: west terre haute indiana
Posts: 543
Default Confucious say...

cheating is lying to man in mirror...only he know truth
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-30-2009, 04:47 AM
007's Avatar
007 007 is offline
Top Qualifier
View 007's Photo Album
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,512
Default

First of all
Quote:
cheating is lying to man in mirror...only he know truth
just how truthful are you going to be....
I was a marshall for three years and heard a lot of it..I won't say it all...

If the rules don't say it than I can do it "The rules don't say I can't cut the roof off so I can" this is why most rules look like a small book.. "The rules do not say that I can't rewire the motor..so if I'm allowed a 22,000 rpm motor and start with that and I rewire/balance it,than it"s ok"
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-30-2009, 05:59 AM
Hobbit840 Hobbit840 is offline
National Racer
View Hobbit840's Photo Album
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 336
Default cheating

that is why our club has a general rule "if it doesn't say you can, then you can't". Keeps it simpler.

hobbit
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-30-2009, 06:22 AM
eaddict's Avatar
eaddict eaddict is offline
International Racer
View eaddict's Photo Album
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ballwin, MO, USA
Posts: 959
Default

We race for a box plaque. Not worth the time effort to cheat. Some guys want to start racing for money. No way. Goes from fun to hyper competitive.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-30-2009, 06:54 AM
obscenegreen917...k's Avatar
obscenegreen917...k obscenegreen917...k is offline
International Racer
View obscenegreen917...k's Photo Album
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: west terre haute indiana
Posts: 543
Default my point...in case you missed it

Quote:
Originally Posted by 007 View Post
First of all

just how truthful are you going to be....
I was a marshall for three years and heard a lot of it..I won't say it all...
Quote:
Originally Posted by eaddict View Post
We race for a box plaque. Not worth the time effort to cheat. Some guys want to start racing for money. No way. Goes from fun to hyper competitive.
ahhhh the "F" word....FUN...hmmmmm crazy concept... race for beer, nobody cheats for beer.... do they???
if you hafta cheat then where's the fun???? if the fun is gone what's the point???
but i digest

jimmy
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-30-2009, 07:08 AM
007's Avatar
007 007 is offline
Top Qualifier
View 007's Photo Album
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,512
Default

OOH OOH!!!
Almost forgot my favorite: A racer came into a race with a new "box stock" car. He raced it that night and won! At the end of the night nobody could believe how fast that car was..(I think it was by 10 laps) He kept on saying that all I did was take it out of the box and I washed the motor with nitro and re-oil it.BUT WHAT he didn't say was he had another hobby shop (where he bought it) Hop it up.. Was he cheating???? in his mind NO!!!
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-30-2009, 07:46 AM
Mark's Avatar
Mark Mark is offline
"The Boss"
View Mark's Photo Album
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Woodstock, GA
Posts: 3,073
Default

I've seen cars blatantly cheating that passed through tech.

One, for example, was in NINCO Nats 07 when a fellow competitor's custom painted Ascari had its fender wells sanded considerably. According to the rules, bodies cannot be sanded/modified - in the NINCO Ascari's case, with the wide rear wheels, bearings, and gear fitted, the gear side wheel would protrude from the fender well 1mm. This would cause the tire to rub on the fender well. Least to say he enjoyed a tire-rub-free car while the rest of us with Ascaris rubbed our tires the entire race.

Did it change the out come of the race? Not for the top runners, but it could have with the racers he was in contention with. Rules are rules. If you can't abide by them and/or follow them within their spirits, then just stay home.

....as far as accusers - before you call someone out, make sure you've read the rules yourself. I've been called out multiple times regarding guide sanding and front tire truing when the rules clearly states the modifications in these specific areas are permitted.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-30-2009, 07:55 AM
Oldkid's Avatar
Oldkid Oldkid is offline
National Racer
View Oldkid's Photo Album
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Toronto
Posts: 114
Default At Our Club

At the Maxport II Club (1/32 slot cars) in Toronto, we approach things a little different. Rather than having pages and pages of rules, we run a Bracket for the different classes of cars. Just like in real Drag Racing, if you go under the set Bracket time, your time does not count (for that lap).
So therefore, do anything you want to the car (commerical parts only, no scratch built stuff), just make sure you stay within the Bracket time. Presto - no way of cheating.

Intially I did not like the idea - I raced RC Electric and 1/24 Slots the "normal" way - build the car to the rules, taking it to the limit or evening pushing the envelope in terms of rules interpretation and go as fast as you can. Racer turnouts would be fine at first until in became evident that certain people will always win, other would always be at the bottom. The bottom guys would drop out and viola, small turnouts to race. The guys that drop out felt they had no chance of being competitive.

Now to the Bracket idea. We set the Bracket time to something that most guys should be able to achieve. We have experienced racers who can easily go under the Bracket time with certain box stock cars so they have to either detune the car or drive it a little slower - which is very hard to do. The newbies who can't reach the Bracket with a box stock car stick a quicker motor to make up some time lost in the corners or earlier braking points. The Old Time racers seem to have embraced the idea and we have had several rookie drivers claim wins over the 3 seasons that have been run. I would estimate that about half or more of the guys racing have a good chance to win. Our attendance has been around 20 drivers give or take a few and the club is thriving.

I am sure this approach to prevent cheating ( and level the playing field) is not everyones cup of tea but it seems to work for us.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 11-30-2009, 07:57 AM
dirtnap2 dirtnap2 is offline
National Racer
View dirtnap2's Photo Album
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 102
Default

it's only cheating if you get caught.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-30-2009, 08:09 AM
lindseyangell's Avatar
lindseyangell lindseyangell is offline
Championship Contender
View lindseyangell's Photo Album
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Leavenworth,KS USA 66048
Posts: 1,528
Default

When a car has "Passed" the Tech Inspection and YOU know that it is not right YOU have the Right to bring it to the attention of the Race Director. The Tech Inspector should Not be allowed to Tech Inspect the cars and they should all be Re-Inspected. Rules are there for a reason. Should an OFFICIAL be Lame it needs to be brought to the atention of the Race Director, the Director/Organizer, or even the Owner of the track. Should the car and person not be Disqualified, I would remove my car from the event and put my protest in writing. The Rules you are suppose to follow have to come from a source and that is the source to follow up on, should the complete chain of command fail you. Anotehr reason to get statementws from other racers, even photos of the car if you can do so. Sometimes it is only taking your complaint to the person that has entered the car. Explaining to him'her that the car is obviously in violation of a Rule they shoudl remove the car or you will Protest it. Most of the time the person will NOT Challenge your personal comments and remove the car. The problem with having an Official involved calls for some serious decisions onyour part. In the end it is everyone that benefits from making someone follow the rules.

I was at a race on time in Virginia where the rules were being bent by the Race Director, Owner of the shop and when I presented the Rules to him he didn't care. I just said what I had to then when I removed my car, everyone except the cheater withdrew from the race. I was told to never ever return to the track. A week later I received a letter in the mail, with an offer to race FREE of any entry fees, and a refund check for my race entry. I tore up the check and never did return to the track. Many of the guys went on up to Richmond from that point on and raced indoors... The races fell apart at that point for him.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-30-2009, 08:28 AM
ProfFate ProfFate is offline
Champion Racer retired RIP
View ProfFate's Photo Album
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 967
Default

Hi

I don't cheat.

I get accused of cheating a lot.

Back in the early 80s in south texas, I saw a lot of people cheating in a series and the tech inspector wasn't catching any of it. I tried pointing out these things and was told it was impossible, that nothing could get past HIM. I was told to cheat if I could.

So, to be a jerk, I built a cheater, announced it was a cheater, won the series and, after my claims, all the cars were torn down and found to be cheaters...except mine. Which really WAS a cheater.

Attention to detail is worth a lot of speed. And if you decide to cheat, attention to detail makes THAT work.

When I get accused of cheating, it is merely that they don't "SEE" the car.

Fate
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-30-2009, 08:45 AM
lindseyangell's Avatar
lindseyangell lindseyangell is offline
Championship Contender
View lindseyangell's Photo Album
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Leavenworth,KS USA 66048
Posts: 1,528
Default

I never said whether I cheated or not; The answer is "No, I don't believe in cheating." I try to follow the rules and the Spirit/Intention of the Rules. I don't think using Teflon (PTFE) in oil/grease is cheating, and I don't believe shimming axles, or filing the Crown Gears for clearance is cheating. Should I ever get called on something on an inspection I will definately change it if I am in violation of a rule. I'm not that great of a driver yet, but I don't believe in cheating.

I think Sportsmanship is lacking these days when you have coaches on a field and you wiat for their ruling when you know whether or not you are safe, of not or fouled or not...what ever the case. I don't think that people these days are as honest as we were back 40 years ago...
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 11-30-2009, 09:05 AM
antslake's Avatar
antslake antslake is offline
International Racer
View antslake's Photo Album
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Greenwood Lake NY
Posts: 502
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 007 View Post
OOH OOH!!!
Almost forgot my favorite: A racer came into a race with a new "box stock" car. He raced it that night and won! At the end of the night nobody could believe how fast that car was..(I think it was by 10 laps) He kept on saying that all I did was take it out of the box and I washed the motor with nitro and re-oil it.BUT WHAT he didn't say was he had another hobby shop (where he bought it) Hop it up.. Was he cheating???? in his mind NO!!!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAA....ha

What track was that? Who was that?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks
  •   
  •   
  •   
  •   
  •   
  •   
  •   
  •   
  •   
  •   
  •   
  •   
  •   
  •   
  •   
  •   
  •   
  •   
  •   
  •   
  •   
  •   
  •   
  •   
  •   
  •   
  •   
  •   
  •   
  •   
  •   
  •   
  •   
  •   
  •   
  •   
  •   

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:58 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.