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  #1  
Old 04-17-2012, 04:49 PM
Ross Ross is offline
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Default Ninco Voltage 17.2v vs 14.8

This is my first post. I have a two lane analog Ninco plastic 93 ft Ninco F1 Bahrain inspired track running two Ninco power transformers, one per lane Model PW148-900-US output 17.2v 800mA. I have power 3 power jumpers to manage the voltage drop over the length. Yet I see other Ninco power transformers 10301 14.8v, 700maA for sale. What is the difference? It came with 8 cars of various makes second hand. My Lambo 4wd AutoArt burned the motor up after 10 uses on the track 5 min per use? Now my brand new Scalextrix Audio R10 TDI Power No 7 C2905 has bit lots all speed and crawls. The other cars are fine... Any idea what is going on? Thanks
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Old 04-17-2012, 05:19 PM
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Alright, yet another Canuck!
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Old 04-17-2012, 06:04 PM
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Step 1 - remove the magnets from the cars, IMO . (your choice) They'll need far less power then. Maybe if you have super-nice $$$ cars it isn't as much of an issue. Most of the $40-50 price range cars I've tried run poorly with the magnets in, and behave much better without.

the 14V power supply just provides lower voltage. It works well for non-magnet cars. You might want to look into a nice big adjustable bench power supply. Ninco also has an adjustable supply, which Bob might mention.

Last edited by bkrownd; 04-17-2012 at 06:29 PM.
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Old 04-17-2012, 08:24 PM
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So when do Ninco shift their voltage strategy? Is 17.2v old Ninco and 14.8v new Ninco? Thanks
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Old 04-17-2012, 11:04 PM
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The digital system runs on 14V
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Old 04-18-2012, 04:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross View Post
So when do Ninco shift their voltage strategy? Is 17.2v old Ninco and 14.8v new Ninco? Thanks
17.2 volts is very old. Ninco was coming out with 14.8 volt sets in 2004, maybe even sooner than that. I'm using a review written in 2005 as a reference, but the set came out in 2004, and the pictures show a 14.8 volt power supply.
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Old 04-18-2012, 07:23 AM
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Hi Ross,
welcome to the NINCO forum...

The standard NINCO "wall wart" power supplies for analog use are unregulated, and can provide 14.8 volts (under load) to the track. If you measure the (no-load) voltage at the jack coming out of the power supplies, you'll measure almost 21VDC.

You say you're using one per lane..... which NINCO power track are you using... the standard 10101 Powerbase, or the 10401 Double Power Powerbase? (the 10101 has 1/8" stereo connectors for the controllers, and the 10401 has the bigger 1/4" connectors).
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Old 04-18-2012, 02:23 PM
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Correct I am using the older #10101 standard power base, one only. I agree "no load" I get 24v and 27v at the powerbase for each lane. Originally it bummed me out why the digital meter would not work on the 20v scale.. Thanks for the history on when 14.8v landed, that helps, this is an old set. So again is it normal to burn motors out with stock magnets on a 93 ft track? Do I assume 10% of the cars will die?
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Old 04-18-2012, 02:57 PM
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I have no idea why your no-load voltage readings are so high.... should be 21V max.
You shouldn't be burning out motors at all.
It's not a matter of old or new.... max track voltage under load on older or newer (10301) wall warts should be about 14.8V.
What cars did you get?? NINCO, Scalextric, Carrera, SCX, Slot.it, NSR, etc etc??
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Old 04-18-2012, 03:02 PM
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Poorly tuned low-price cars with strong magnets will usually struggle.
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Old 04-18-2012, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross View Post
So again is it normal to burn motors out with stock magnets on a 93 ft track? Do I assume 10% of the cars will die?
Well, no. And yes. And here's why I'm giving you an ambiguous answer.
When a motor draws current, it heats up. The more current we draw, the more heat we get. Now, if you bind up your motor so it won't turn, it will try to draw lots of current until it eventually burns up. The magnets we have in the bottom of our cars, and their attraction to the rails, makes it harder for the motor to turn -- and therefore, the magnet forces the motor to draw more current. The stronger the magnet, the more current the motor will draw.

Now, going back many years, cars used weak traction magnets (the infamous 'brownie' magnet, basically the same stuff as refrigerator magnets). When Ninco used the old magnets, they also had the 17+ volt power pack.

Keep in mind -- the more voltage you have, the more current there will be in the circuit. It would have been about the same time that Ninco backed off to the 14.8 volt power pack, that's also when they'd have been switching over to the much more intense neodymium magnets. Lower voltage would be necessary to reduce the amps flowing through the motor, to compensate for the increased amperage being drawn as a result of the powerful traction magnet.

So you are using the higher voltage power pack along with the strong magnets, and these two things shouldn't be used together. That's a recipe for burned up motors, especially on Ninco track with its high magnetic attraction.

So yes, it's normal considering that you have a deadly combination of magnets, voltage, and track rails with high iron content. Get rid of that power supply, in other words, or find a way to step your track voltage down. And no, it shouldn't be that way, and you shouldn't expect 10% of your motors to die -- unless you keep using this same combination.

I hope that helps!
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Old 04-18-2012, 03:23 PM
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ElSecundo,
Your ambiguous post is less than ambiguous, and will give everyone food for thought!

Ross.... what cars are you using?
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Old 04-19-2012, 02:19 PM
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Great answer on voltage and current. I will be showing the kids. They need to teach this in the schools. Thanks ElSecundo. Agree Ninco track has high magnetic attraction. Ordered a new Prof Motor SC010 motor for the Audio listed above, lets see if it is more durable than the OEM Scaletrix motor on this setup.
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Old 04-20-2012, 04:59 AM
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Thanks, I was worried that my answer might be too much of a mish-mash to make any sense.

Not too much science in there, but it's more about the practical experience with magnets, motors and electricity.

It's helpful just to remember that a motor is happiest when it's free to spin. The more load you put on them, the more heat they build up. Anything you do to make it more difficult for the motor to spin will add to the heat, and potentially decrease the life of the motor. That could be more magnets, more weight, or even taller gearing that makes it harder for the car to accelerate.
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Old 04-20-2012, 06:39 AM
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I would also add that a stated amperage capability for a variable power supply is usually the amperage capability at the lowest voltage setting. As the voltage is raised, the current capability will go down.
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