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  • Float

    Physics of float. I can kinda understand why float might help load the outside corner tires with mass to help in the corners but it also might have adverse affects on COG shift and vibrations in corners. So is float a proven science for plastic chassis 132 cars? Does improving float help 4 post cars or only two post cars?

  • #2
    If what we are talking about here is not screwing the body mounts down tight, so the body can move a bit versus the chassis, the benefit is shock absorption. A shock to the chassis makes the body bounce and rattle. Passing the shock to the body helps the chassis stay in contact with the track.

    The best way I've found to illustrate the principle is via the gadget known as 'Newton's Cradle'. Take a look at the video I've linked below.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijkG1hw8TcQ

    Ed Bianchi
    Last edited by HO RacePro; 05-01-2022, 04:05 AM.

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    • #3
      The advantage is grip, as weight shifts to the outside corner of the car it loads the outside tire giving grip.
      Tighten down the body and the car will be loose, sliding more. The trick is to find the right amount of grip. The body must shift smoothly or handling will change as the body sticks then shifts.

      Also the same applies to pod chassis plus the shift creates a slight curve to the chassis creating a rear wheel steer effect.

      Try it tighten all screws and the car will be loose, low grip. Slowly try loosening one area at a time.

      A rough set up is 1/4 turn first at the front and 1/2 turn at the rear.

      Machine screws are best as they tend to stay in place plus have a smooth shaft where the parts are sliding. If you are trying to make something move over a self tapping screw with thread all the way to the underside of the screw head it will not work as well.

      Every car is different, plus driving style and type of track and tires comes into play. Test and try.

      Last edited by Scaleracing; 05-01-2022, 09:26 AM.
      Alan Smith
      SCI Owner.
      www.scaleracing.com
      www.slotcarillustrated.com
      www.facebook.com/scaleracingcenter
      www.132slotcar.us

      1-253-255-1807

      Comment


      • #4
        Be aware...
        NOT ALL cars like a "loose" chassis.
        My metal chassised cars are all of the "loose design. But...less than 1/4 of my plastic, chassis cars are loose, or of the float verity.

        It's a pretty simple test really. Run the car for a few laps, should be at least three with the motor pod and or body tight, then with the motor pod loose, then with the motor pod tight, but the body loose, then the opposite, then everything loose.

        Pay attention to the lap times. Write down the average of the three (4 or 5 or...laps) lap times of each method. Now you'll see exactly...how each car likes to be run best !

        Mike

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        • #5
          Of course, it's not just about lap times. Driveability, and how well it keeps that keel in the slot all the time, are key too. Particularly important for proxy racers where the cars will be raced at strange tracks by strange people! It should be easy to drive efficiently.

          Body to chassis attachment is one area that may be kept loose or not, and pod/chassis connection is the other. I've had good success with spring suspension. But ensuring everything is moving around smoothly without tire binding is essential, espcially with something like a sidewinder Fly pod.

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          • #6
            When the body screws are tight it also makes the chassis stiffer = Looser handling car. Loose body screws = softer more flexible chassis = more grip.

            Bob

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Scaleracing View Post
              The advantage is grip, as weight shifts to the outside corner of the car it loads the outside tire giving grip.
              Tighten down the body and the car will be loose, sliding more. The trick is to find the right amount of grip. The body must shift smoothly or handling will change as the body sticks then shifts.

              Also the same applies to pod chassis plus the shift creates a slight curve to the chassis creating a rear wheel steer effect.

              Try it tighten all screws and the car will be loose, low grip. Slowly try loosening one area at a time.

              A rough set up is 1/4 turn first at the front and 1/2 turn at the rear.

              Machine screws are best as they tend to stay in place plus have a smooth shaft where the parts are sliding. If you are trying to make something move over a self tapping screw with thread all the way to the underside of the screw head it will not work as well.

              Every car is different, plus driving style and type of track and tires comes into play. Test and try.

              Thanks. I can see how weight shifting to the outside wheel could help that wheel's traction. But doesn't that reduce the inside wheel's traction and adversely shift a portion of the car's mass to the outside - thus adversely shifting the COG? And since the body is free'r to move on the chassis with loosened screws, doesn't that open the door to vibration that could initiate a break-out friction affect?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Mike- View Post
                Be aware...
                NOT ALL cars like a "loose" chassis.
                My metal chassised cars are all of the "loose design. But...less than 1/4 of my plastic, chassis cars are loose, or of the float verity.

                It's a pretty simple test really. Run the car for a few laps, should be at least three with the motor pod and or body tight, then with the motor pod loose, then with the motor pod tight, but the body loose, then the opposite, then everything loose.

                Pay attention to the lap times. Write down the average of the three (4 or 5 or...laps) lap times of each method. Now you'll see exactly...how each car likes to be run best !

                Mike
                So I don't mind doing the simple test, and I will. However, I'll still be looking for the physics behind any improved performance I find. And particularly why float helps only 1/4 of your plastic cars but not the majority.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by perrotoro View Post
                  But doesn't that reduce the inside wheel's traction
                  I expect it does, but that's a solid back axle there, no differential. Which means that the outside tire has to go further than the inside tire to get through a turn, which makes it preferable to have less traction from that inside tire and more more weight transfer to the outside tire.

                  Coming out of the turn and into the straight is when you want maximum traction from both tires, to launch you down to the next corner ...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by perrotoro View Post
                    So is float a proven science for plastic chassis 132 cars?
                    As Science is the pursuit and application of knowledge and understanding of the natural and social world following a systematic methodology based on evidence, including: Objective observation: Measurement and data (possibly although not necessarily using mathematics as a tool) Evidence....I'd say no, Empirical Engineering

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by perrotoro View Post

                      Thanks. I can see how weight shifting to the outside wheel could help that wheel's traction. But doesn't that reduce the inside wheel's traction and adversely shift a portion of the car's mass to the outside - thus adversely shifting the COG? And since the body is free'r to move on the chassis with loosened screws, doesn't that open the door to vibration that could initiate a break-out friction affect?
                      OK the main reason, like a Kart and to a lesser extent F1 cars the inside wheel in the corner is not supplying much if any grip.

                      Watch in slow motion and weight transfer is to the outside wheel.

                      Why this helps with these types of vehicles is little or no differential. If both wheels are firmly planted the car slot or Kart or F1 would tend to push, to try to go straight on.

                      As to proven facts, to me the clock and time help qualify the results.

                      If a car is faster it may not necessarily be as consistent to drive. So lap times are important, but also so is laps over time.

                      We race 3 minute heats often the highest lap count does not go to the car with the fastest lap rather the best average over the 3 minutes.

                      Plus tires, driving style and motor power and torque and gearing all play a part.

                      So many variables to consider, But loosening the chassis, on some cars very slightly, on some fairly dramatically helps here.

                      Strangely 2 identical set up cars will often need a different amount of float to work.

                      Think on that one too.
                      Last edited by Scaleracing; 05-29-2022, 07:38 PM.
                      Alan Smith
                      SCI Owner.
                      www.scaleracing.com
                      www.slotcarillustrated.com
                      www.facebook.com/scaleracingcenter
                      www.132slotcar.us

                      1-253-255-1807

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Wet Coast Racer View Post
                        Of course, it's not just about lap times. Driveability, and how well it keeps that keel in the slot all the time, are key too. Particularly important for proxy racers where the cars will be raced at strange tracks by strange people! It should be easy to drive efficiently.

                        Body to chassis attachment is one area that may be kept loose or not, and pod/chassis connection is the other. I've had good success with spring suspension. But ensuring everything is moving around smoothly without tire binding is essential, espcially with something like a sidewinder Fly pod.

                        Well, yeah...one normally...equals the other ! In most 99.9% of cases, if a car is difficult to drive, "consistent"...lap times will not be met.
                        And I do believe that I mentioned, more than one lap ! If a car is difficult to drive, a single lap can be done well, BUT, multiple laps, not so much !

                        Argue more ?

                        Mike

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Mike- View Post
                          Argue more ?Mike
                          Moi? Us moderators are way too mature for foolish argument, you should know that by now!

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