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The Awful Tire Thread

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  • #31
    You should be aware that extra hard low grip front tires are available to fit standard 1/32nd scale wheels. Super Tires uses a Z designation for those.

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    • #32
      I am aware that there are low-grip front tires available from a number of different manufacturers.

      One of things that bugs me is each manufacturer has their own codes for their different kinds of tires. Maybe not confusing if you stick with one brand, but definitely an issue if you are trying to compare tires across brands.

      A little standardization would be nice, but I don't expect to ever see it.

      Ed Bianchi

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      • #33
        What form would this standardisation take?

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        • #34
          Originally posted by NicoRosberg. View Post
          What form would this standardisation take?
          Yeah I'm scratching my head a bit over that one.

          It's unlikely that Super Tires would call their minimal friction front tires 'Zero Grips', being as Slot.it already coined the term.

          Separately, I'm not convinced that making hard smooth 3D front 'tires' (rumble rumble rumble aaargh) is going to work any better than gluing whatever rubber tires that fit to the rims, then applying repeated coats of clear nail varnish, whilst turning them between times in a Dremel or tire truer, to true and profile them. Do it right, and that five thou imperfection will become circular once more.
          Last edited by Wet Coast Racer; 03-23-2020, 02:13 PM.

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          • #35
            If you coat rubber tires with nail polish that usually wears off in time and you would have to fuss around with another coat, with urethane tires that would not be an issue. That reminds me that I had some special low grip front tires made for HO cars. I gave a few of those to a fellow racer that accidently put some on the back wheels of one of his cars which then acted like he was driving on ice. I guess they really are low grips. I don't think that standardized terms for these tires are needed as long as the nomenclature makes sense.
            Being confused is normal when a person gets into a scale that he is unfamiliar with. With respect to gears for 1/32 scale cars look at all of the ones that Slot.it offers. There are different diameter pinion gears and different diameter spur gears. There are anglewinder gears with the hub on one side and anglewinder gears with the hub on the other side. There are regular crown gears and there are offset crown gears. There are Ergal or plastic spur gears and the Ergal ones come in solid and lightened versions. Besides that there are brass or aluminum hubs. So many choices!

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            • #36
              Originally posted by RichD View Post
              If you coat rubber tires with nail polish that usually wears off in time and you would have to fuss around with another coat, with urethane tires that would not be an issue.
              Not quite understanding your meaning here, Rich. No argument that just applying a quick coat of nail polish to rubber tires, the result will be that it wears off comparatively quickly. But urethanes are no different, in my experience, with only a single light coating..

              Whereas, I've described (perhaps badly) a technique of repeatedly applying the clear nail polish, allowing it to dry, then sanding it all down a bit, then repeating the process. And then doing it some more. And more. Meanwhile, paying attention to the resultant OD, profile, and surface hardness.

              By chance, I have a photo on my wall that I think you posted from the RAA 2013 at the Lee Marquardt Speedway, depicting the top three cars in GT1 class. If you had picked up the winning car (smoking Smokeio on this occasion) and looked at the front tires carefully, guess what?



              Giving credit where it's due, I learned that technique from SCI Member Moby Dick.
              Last edited by Wet Coast Racer; 03-24-2020, 03:34 PM. Reason: Found the photo here on SCI!

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              • #37
                What I meant by "some standardization" was primarily in nomenclature. Right now there is some commonality as far as citing wheel diameter and tire width in millimeters. A few manufacturers give a Shore number for hardness. That's a start.

                It would be nice if there was a standard designation for tire compound -- at the very least to call out whether a tire is silicone, foam rubber, solid rubber or urethane. Would there be a way to call out different grades? Aside from that Shore number I have my doubts. But maybe the Shore number would be enough.

                There also seems to be some agreement as to whether a tire is a slick, a classic treaded, an F1 or GT tire -- slick or treaded. That is commonly called out.

                Then there is the issue of whether the tire is hollowed out for a wheel with a rib. Most in 1/32nd are, although RevoSlot tires aren't. And apparently there are variations in the diameter and width of any wheel rib. Oh lordy.

                If any standardized way of classifying tires is going to be comprehensive, it could end up looking like the nutrition label on a can of peas. That is not actually the worst idea. Such a label could be to some degree self-explanatory. If the alternative is a 12-character alphanumeric code, I'll take the label.

                Not that I'd expect to find the label on the tires themselves, but maybe included on the web page for a tire.

                Or maybe a QR code? You know, those square, pixelated things you can scan with your phone? Them.

                Now if I hold my breath long enough............................................ .......

                Nope. (GASP!) That don't work.

                Ed Bianchi

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                • #38
                  Believe it or don't, but Slot.it have been working on that concept for a while.

                  Check out Page 62 of their Spares page. Specs are all there.

                  Not a 'world standard' perhaps, but it tries to provide all the necessary references, including sidewall imprinting so you can see what you got.

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                  • #39
                    I referred to the hard urethane front tires that Super Tires calls Low Grips. Those do not require a coating. Thanks for re-posting my picture. If I recall correctly Smokeio coated his front tires with polyurethane, then gave them a light sanding to be sure they were still true. Once we are out of quarantine I may remember to ask him about that.
                    Knowing the Shore value of a tire might be useful, but I do not consider that information to be essential. I suppose that if you were using Shore 45 tires and liked them, but were unable to get more for some reason you might try Shore 45 tires by another maker. I expect that some makers may not be eager to disclose that information because it would give potential competitors a clue as to how they make their tires. I do have a durometer, but it is difficult to get accurate readings of tires. To get a good reading you need to measure a fairly thick slab of material. Foam requires a special type of durometer.
                    I have used two makes of silicone tires that I believe have the same Shore values, but they require a slightly different truing technique and can act differently on the track.
                    Some aftermarket tire makers make a much greater variety of sizes and compounds than Slot.it does. Super Tires has about 132 different sizes and almost all of those are available in different compounds or colors. Putting QR codes on the tires would be time consuming and would add cost with little benefit for the user.

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                    • #40
                      Gather around children, and I'll tell you a story from the days of long ago...

                      Back when Twinn-K first started selling the original silicone tires, bonded to aluminum hubs, (and had salesmen that visited slot racing centers to promote them), their salesmen would demonstrate the stability of their tires by chucking a tire, wheel and axle into a Dremel tool, and spin it up to high RPM. Nothing would happen.

                      Then they would do the same trick with a competitor's tire. That tire would visibly grow in diameter as the speed increased, and finally explode. Made an impression, it did. And helped sales.

                      The same physics are still with us today. Obviously the RPM's of slotcar rear axles aren't high enough to detonate tires, except maybe on a drag strip, but can still be high enough to cause tires to 'grow'. I believe some clever magnet racers have taken advantage of that phenomenon, using the tire expansion to lift the car slightly at high speed, reducing the magnetic downforce and the drag it creates, on the straights.

                      I think that may have something to do with the 'air' tires and wheels made for 1/32nd scale.

                      Now none of what I've related, above, would stand up in a court of law. It is all hearsay. But it does kind of line up with all that stuff I remember about Issac Newton's non-judicial laws.

                      Comments?

                      Ed Bianchi

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                      • #41
                        I just noticed that I have been promoted to a "Championship Contender" in the sidebar of my last post, above. Apparently by exceeding 1,000 posts I've cleared that threshold.

                        I also notice that my good buddy RichD, who is called out as a "World Champion", has a gob-smacking 12,513 posts. Geez, Rich, did you start posting when you were five?

                        I can say with conviction that those 12-thousand plus posts were all useful, informative pearls of Rich's hard-earned wisdom. I've spent some time with him, on and off the track, and came away impressed. (And often eating his dust!)

                        After "World Champion", what's the next level? Slot God?*

                        And now there is the question of those bars underneath the designated rank. I've got 10 orange bars while it looks like Rich has none -- all greyed out. What is the story there?

                        Ed Bianchi

                        *Actually, no. I think someone uses that as their handle.

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                        • #42
                          https://www.slotcarillustrated.com/memberlist

                          You can toggle the posts column so that the most prolific guys/galls come to the top.

                          Originally posted by HO RacePro View Post
                          I

                          And now there is the question of those bars underneath the designated rank. I've got 10 orange bars while it looks like Rich has none -- all greyed out. What is the story there?.
                          That is your reputation.
                          Last edited by NicoRosberg.; 03-25-2020, 09:18 AM.

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                          • #43
                            With respect to the number of posts I am still trying to catch up to Robert Livingston, who hasn't posted in a number of years.
                            I remember Twinn-Ks from the mid '60s. Prior to those commercial raceway cars had either solid rubber or foam tires. The foam tires were better if you put some sort of magic conditioner on them. With the Twinn-Ks no conditioner was needed, but the track had to be dust free. I sort of cheated on that because we were allowed to take a few laps before each race started. Lane rotations were not used, we drew for our lanes, so I would run a car with treated sponge tires around to clean up my lane. I did that for months, nobody ever noticed. The Twinn-Ks were a little fragile. They were only available in a few sizes, but the raceway had a lathe if you wanted to get a set cut down. Candies Competition Supergrips came along next, those were wider than the Twinn-Ks, they were less likely to get chunked and they came on plastic wheels. I still have a few pairs of Candies, they are still as good as new. One thing about Candies was that they came in every color except black, I always tried to get the dark gray ones. I did race one car with pink (ugh!) tires.

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                            • #44
                              i remember those from the early-middle sixties, but i never saw the guy come and demo. they ended up being too hard for our tracks (for racing) and bounced under power. think i still have at least one pair of those big candies around somewhere.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by RichD View Post
                                I I suppose that if you were using Shore 45 tires and liked them, but were unable to get more for some reason you might try Shore 45 tires by another maker. I expect that some makers may not be eager to disclose that information because it would give potential competitors a clue as to how they make their tires.
                                Almost all makers have provided shore data so long as I can remember. That doesn't give any maker any idea about another maker's ingredients or methodology.
                                And some makers produce multiple ranges of tyre with the same shore value in different formulas.

                                The only common tyre under doubt is ultra-grips where I have read both shore 15 and shore 16 as having been supplied by the company over the years to distributors.

                                In general I just don't understand what is the big issue, or need for "standardisation".

                                For rears, it doesn't take much to work out what tyre suits the tracks you run on, and the shore values are readily available to experiment. All part of setting up a car.
                                You may find for instance that a Sideways Pro-speed soft suits your wood track - or plastic, but hi grip soft with the same shore value from the same maker; doesn't
                                [In general, Pro-speed are for plastic tracks, Hi Grip for wood.]

                                Same goes for F22 versus N22 Slot.it. Quite different formulations with the same A-shore value.

                                As to fronts, There are just a few, and all maker denote them as being for fronts quite clearly.
                                so what is this need for standardization.
                                You may as well tell Henry and the General to make all their pistons interchangeable, and the chassis blot mount positions.

                                There would be more issue on cross fitting brands of tyre to wheel than tyre suitability, but that is another subject.

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