How many of you would get out of your basements?

[bartbrn]

Re: That statement reminds me!

Shades of TMAS!

Larry --

I beg your pardon -- I was so assiduously trying to avoid the vacuous basilisk gaze of that little yellow smiling thing, that I completely missed the reference to TMAS!

THOSE were the good ole days, huh? No arguing, no bickering, no pomposity or hubris... no avatars, doppelgangers, monosyllabic flannelmouths, paranoid schizophrenics, or Rotarians...

I've been trying to find my little TMAS graphic -- the old AVG tiger with leaking udders leaping through a black ring around which white letters boldly spelled out "Tiger Milk Appreciation Society," but I seemed to have relegated the Illustrator file to some long-lost back-up CD. Such is the transience of life.

Cheers!

Bart

[Greenman62]

Re: That statement reminds me!

Oh man...

I may be the last oficially accepted member TMAS. I was inducted to the list and got maybe half a dozen posts. Then the silence was grave-like...

(sigh)

Greenman62

[bartbrn]

Re: That statement reminds me!

Man, my eye-brain connection is more frayed than I thought! I ALSO missed the fact that you edited your post so it no longer contained your rather dismissive closing lines: "It seems you don't subscribe to much others say on this board or any others, over "your" past history on discussion boards or e-mail lists."

I don't know if that was a change of heart, or a politic edit, but I'll take it as a good sign that you don't consider me beyond the pale of human kind!

Bart

[bartbrn]

Re: That statement reminds me!

Yeah, TMAS kinda self-destructed. Like the fall of Rome, many elements contributed to its collapse. Not least among them was a character who shall remain unnamed here, but who -- like me, I guess -- is also spreading his same old fertilizer in newer fields.

Of course, if I mea-culpa'd that *I* was partially responsible for the death of TMAS, I'd be accused of delusions of grandeur (pretty small grandeur, at that!), and if I said I had absolutely nothing to do with it, the same voices would accuse me of cowardice and evasion of personal responsibility.

Go figure...

Bart

[NOISY MUSE]

Re: That statement reminds me!

I think it was TMAS's predecessor, 132slot that self-destructed in the manner you describe. TMAS was born of the ruins from 132slot and owned by the same person who then handed it off to another person. I know at least one of the dl's still functions because now and again someone finds the address and sends an "is this thing on" post.

Right about the same time a yahoo site was introduced. Pretty much all of the dl's died, but their death was brought about by the discussion boards like this one which allow much better sorting of posts provided users follow the disciplines. Everybody's been doing pretty well since the Paddock was WISELY moved to the top as the "entry point".

Scottrik

[bartbrn]

Re: That statement reminds me!

I think it was TMAS's predecessor, 132slot that self-destructed in the manner you describe.

Ahh, yes... I'd forgotten about 132slot. You're quite right... hard to believe the same cast of loonies would still be floating around and bumping up against one another. Small world. But, as Steven Wright said, I wouldn't want to paint it...

Cheery-bye!

Bart

[Prof Fate]

Re: Back on motor rules.

Hi

Scott, I appreciate your long post in rebuttal to me.

Oddly, I did not and do not think that there is anything to rebut. To quote Mark Twain "A difference of Opinion makes a horse race".

This started with talking about getting out of the basement to run plastic ready to runs. And I have been asked online and off and keep begging off. Thought I would explain why not ME. I was not pleading for agreement or trying to change a mind, I was clearly explaining my prejudices.

I admit they are prejudices.

Now.... several points on your rebuttal.

1)As I said, I don't see this as an argument. Only my explaination on why "fair and equal sealed spec motors" are not interesting to ME. "your milage may vary".

2)I also have the Tamiya hyperracer tester and it is a basic tool on the bench. My NC1s vary on my machine between 15 and 17. Now, consider the "10%" I mentioned.

3)The NC1 is can drive, all scaleys and fly cars are endbell drive. You and I can push the shaft through..... but that violates the "unopened NC1" rule.

4)"I'll bet that the winning car (on-track performance) in the VRAA could have the "weakest" motor in the field " You may re-read my original post. I have OBSERVED that on most home tracks an NC1 is as quick as you can use on most cars.....I AGREE. However, if that is the "ne-plus-ultra" why do you need rules? Personally, I wanna pittman!

5)With modern stock motors, I WAY prefer the SCX RX41. Now, the motor is about the same as an NC1, but I can easily clean and repair it. Not a throw away. (as an aside, for all you NC1 groups, I will buy your RXs from you!).

6)Never said that rules were evil. I observed that there were choices made out of fear. An observation. We are talking about what I want. I don't want sealed motors.

7)"not a Cukrus"...the point isn't that I am not a Cukrus. I already know that. I am not accused by anyone of being an "A" driver, or a "B", or..... What I see with "sealed motors" is "lets be fair and find out who the best driver is". OK, you are the best driver........now what? If the point is "best driver" then people get a lot more serious about toys than I like. They sometimes even YELL at the cornermarshals, and if you have a quick car, start mumbling about cheating.
You are entirely correct, there are very few slot racers. Even fewer that will go to a convention! And I am the worst example. I built my first car in '59...and several more, usually a couple a year out of shelf models. Then, in 1963, I actually met another RACER for a race. In 74, virtually all the commercial tracks collapsed, but I kept racing. I have been doing the cars because I enjoy them for the entire period. If all there is is the racing, which is what spec rules demand, I will just retreat and build for the fun.

Fate

[NOISY MUSE]

Re: Back on motor rules.

Rocky--ya know I love ya and have nothing but appreciation for the cars you and the other OP members build. One of the highlights of my scale racing "career" was getting together with you guys in Vegas and seeing your work in action. The meeting also proved there's no "critical mass" for BS

2)I also have the Tamiya hyperracer tester and it is a basic tool on the bench. My NC1s vary on my machine between 15 and 17. Now, consider the "10%" I mentioned.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but assuming your measurements (and I've no reason not to) this provides a VARIANCE of closer to 5% with a range of to extremes of 10%. Now throw out your best and worst and what do you get?

I don't disagree that in a traction-limited spec the motor becomes self-limiting. Early on in the VRAA discussion I was proposing this very thing. Unfortunately, a much wider than scale tire has been allowed so I backed off this as a spec motor (and comparatively weak at that) makes this less of an issue/penalty for choosing to build a car with a more properly scaled tire.

I also don't see the spec motor as a rule based in fear, really. I see it more as a matter of perception. My experience (admittedly limited) has been that actual cheating hasn't been a problem within the race group but PERCEPTION of cheating (or even advantage within the rules) does prove devisive. If you want to build a group of people to do anything (including play with toy cars) you have to be aware of perception. You can't necessarily do anything about all of it, but you can take what action is practical to address what is possible.

Scottrik

[Greenman62]

Re: Back on motor rules.

I will just retreat and build for the fun.

See? This is just what I didn't want.

I don't often get out of town to go racing. In Central Illinois there isn't a "monster slot community". A couple of us do get together and race on occasion. When we do the evening is really fun when we can go 15-20 minutes of racing with about a car length or two between the competitors. That's more likely to happen when we run our "NC1 cars" than it is with any other set up we run. I can tell you I've learned more about driving and gearing this way. I really don't care what the motor set up is so long as there's some conformity. I don't particulary care for "bullet" racing. I want to enjoy the competition, plan how I'm going to handle the next lap and improve on the last one.

The big thing for this proposed event for me would be not the racing (`though that's a great reason in itself). It would be meeting you all. I've "talked" with you for years and only met a few. If the "ticket in" has to be a box stock something this or that... I'll get it and show up.

I have a bunch of store boughts. They're okay... all have been tweeked in some manner (not a surprise for many of us).
However, the cars I am really proud of are my reliveries and scratch builts. I would really love to bring these with me and race them with you folks.

Greenman62

[M Brown]

I...

Think that Greenie has hit it on the head for me.

One of the things that makes me blanch about 1/24 USRA type racing is that it's largely about the hardware... slot racing in times past that I have enjoyed the most was about the people and the (for want of a better word) "event".

I feel that MrP is trying to put together a unifying "event" that will have hardware that anyone who wishes to "play" can get ahold of easily.

I feel that by not making it "about the hardware" (you can read this as scratchbuilding if you want) the event is more likely to become about the people and personalities and just be FUN.

Yes, I totally understand that there are people who may feel that (again for want of a better word) model motoring/building is the challenge that they enjoy. I feel that this is an advanaced skill that the well detailed RTR has lessened the need for.

Each to their own of course, and no "judgements" implied, but I feel that this event is intended to be more about building of community rather than building of race cars.

[bartbrn]

Re: Back on motor rules.

See? This is just what I didn't want.

And the above was EXACTLY the response being fished for, as it always is when petulant adolescents, feeling that the game is not being played to their liking, stomp their feet and stalk off the field with the only ball, bat, and glove there is to play with. Except that, in this case, those are decidedly NOT all the balls (well, maybe...!), bats, and gloves available to the rest of the kids.

A closely-related phenomenon often associated with the "I'm gonna take my ball (bat, glove, cup, Skoal, whatever) and go home!" is the ever-delightful "You'll be sorry when I die!" ploy. While these distressing emotional displays are most closely associated with pre-pubescence, in too many cases, they last well into middle-age, and often have a sharp resurgence among the elderly, who are often in despair of their own worth and the esteem in which they are held by their peers.

As the Swan of Avon tells us:

"Last scene of all,
That ends this strange eventful history,
Is second childishness, and mere oblivion,
Sans teeth, sans eyes, sans taste, sans every thing."

IMAGINE HUGE LEERING EMOTICONS HERE >
DENOTING THE BENEVOLENT SPIRIT OF BANTERING HUMOR WHICH WAS THE SOLE INTENT OF THIS POST

Bart "I doan gotta cho you no steenkin emoticons" Brown

[tsrf]

WWII is over, Peace is at Hand!

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>I feel that MrP is trying to put together a unifying "event" that will have hardware that anyone who wishes to "play" can get ahold of easily.<hr></blockquote>

Bingo... <img border=0 src="http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smokin.gif" />

[tsrf]

Received today in my E-mail.

"Your "get out of the basement and meeting real people program" posting on the internet is a great idea!
However, what is wrong with these gentlemen bickering over toy cars? I think they are under-medicated!

Luckily there are some people that understand but the vocal minority needs to be less vocal!

If we do have this event I think I'll set-up a little four lane oval and race for fun with the kids that are there.

RMM"

<img border=0 src="http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/nerd.gif" />

[alaskaracer]

Re: Received today in my E-mail.

I think it would be a blast to come out and race with a bunch of you guys, any idea when and where yet TSRF?