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New pancake chassis from One Stop Slot Shop

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  • RichD
    replied
    I got some tire testing with my OS3 TFX car today. I had a Vonco Porsche Carrera GT Fray style body on the chassis. The Lamborghini body that I used for my initial testing actually works better with the car.
    The stock tires are perfectly satisfactory for casual running, but on my track they tend to go off very quickly. I can do a couple of quick laps before the car starts to slide a lot. Before I begin tire testing I wipe the track down with a special dusting cloth, then run a magnet car with sponge tires with a little traction compound on them for about 25 laps, then another car with slip on silicone tires until the grip does not change much as the laps pile up. I run a couple of air purifiers while the testing is going on. I used the tire cleaner that Ed Bianchi makes.
    With the stock 0.352” OD tires I was able to get down to 5.783 seconds on my ~50 foot MaxTrax road course, but within five laps the car was sliding a lot. It became difficult to do a lap where the car did not slide out enough to lose time and the lap times after that were over 6 seconds. At the limit the car would spin out.
    With 344RF tires (0.354” mounted OD) the best lap time was 5.642 seconds and the drop off as the laps piled up was only one or two tenths of a second. There were few spinouts those tires. With 344RSE tires the best time was 5.716 seconds, that was a surprise because they are usually good for another 0.1 to 0.2 seconds less than regular silicone slip-on tires. The car did not get loose as the laps went by, but the front end would come out of the slot at the limit. With 340RF tires (0.350” mounted diameter) the best lap time was 5.675 seconds, as with the other aftermarket tires the lap times did not fall off by much and the car was only slightly loose at the limit. With 340RSE tires the best lap time was 5.621, the times did not increase by much after 30 laps or so and there was not the front end understeer problem that I got with the 344RSE tires. I am guessing that the car has a smidge more magnetic downforce with the 0.004” smaller diameter tires. That would tend to increase cornering speeds while the top speed would go down slightly.
    Note that the aftermarket tires were a little loose on the stock wheels and those wheels were a little too narrow for the tires. A fanatic would probably want to switch to the appropriate CNC machined double flange wheels.
    Finally, I finished up with the stock tires, the lap times did not change from what they were at the beginning of the test session.
    If the stock tires had been able to maintain their best lap time the difference would seem to be slight, but it would in fact be significant to a hardcore racer. During a 12 minute race the stock tires would do 124.5 laps and the best (at least for me) aftermarket tires would be good for 128.09 laps, a 3.5 lap advantage.
    Note that my track favors cars with a lot of top speed and it has few joints to upset a car. On a twisty track, and especially if it was a little bumpy the SE tires would probably have a greater advantage.

    Leave a comment:


  • tonesua
    replied
    Originally posted by SouthShoreRacing View Post
    JAG Hobbies also has a very different ready to run chassis.
    Yes they are. wow. they were pulling times close to my wizzard chassis jets and aurora, out of the box. A local to me racer bought three, threw on a HEMP racing body (a Uracco) and we had a quick rundown roundrobin 4 minutes each lane on a 3 lane door sized track. light oil and off we went. they need a little more coast, and that will happen with some laps and laping gears, But still these are great. They aren't a fray car. But if you want to run something almost as fast, get an IROC set.

    Leave a comment:


  • Revtor
    replied
    Nice report Rich D!!
    I am surprised at how close it got to a fray car lap time on your track with 1/3 the downforce!! Will love to give these a shot in the future...

    Leave a comment:


  • SouthShoreRacing
    replied
    The chassis as a whole is low which is great to get the center of gravity of the car lower. If you use a flathead screw you shouldn't have a problem unless you really back the screw off, but in my opinion that would be way too much float. I have a Dash Karma Ghia mounted with and the screw head does not protrude past the bottom of the chassis and I have sufficient float.

    Leave a comment:


  • RichD
    replied
    I checked the magnets yesterday, they measured 555 and 565 gauss. The strongest Aurora T-Jet magnets were the green/orange ones that measure 600-650 gauss. In the future I may try some ~850 gauss magnets, but I want to try other tires first. I checked the track clearance and found that a little nib on the bottom of the chassis was almost dragging on the track. I plan on ordering Pro Series Super Tires in both the regular silicone and Silver Edition formulations size 340R and 344R for 0.350" and 0.354" mounted on the stock 0.170" wheels.
    In a fit of ambition I did up this Vonco Porsche Carrera GT body for the new car.



    One other thing is that there is very little clearance under the front of the chassis. If you like to back off on the body screws to get a little float the front screw might drag on the track.

    Leave a comment:


  • KRab
    replied
    I just got mine....I like the guide pin design. I thought it was going to be problematic, but it snapped right in. Threw a couple of drops of oil at it and ran a few laps. It's gonna need some break-in, but it's also surprisingly quiet. I got a spare axle with a 19 tooth pinion, and will try that next. Thinking about mounting a Dash McLaren body on mine....

    Leave a comment:


  • SouthShoreRacing
    replied
    My car arrived yesterday.. I haven't been able to get on the track with it, but I did the basic oiling, scoring of the brushes, and washing the tires. The bottom of the gear is above the bottom of the chassis so clearance for the gear, at least the 15 tooth gear, is never going to be a problem. The chassis is already sitting low, so I'm not sure how much smaller you can realistically go with the rear tire.

    Leave a comment:


  • RichD
    replied
    I had no problem with the guide, the instructions say to push on the rear tab with a small screwdriver held at a 45 degree angle.
    My track has shallow slots, when I am racing on tracks with deeper slots I usually switch to a longer guide pin. I glue the guide pins so I can have some body float.
    I checked the car's track clearance and with smaller diameter rear tires the chassis would be dragging on the track rails. The 15 tooth crown gear does have plenty of clearance.
    Last edited by RichD; 09-28-2021, 06:29 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrFlippant
    replied
    Got mine today, so not long to wait. Seems nice. I look forward to getting it some track time. The guide didn't pop in as easily as I'd hoped. Good thing I got a bag of spares.

    Leave a comment:


  • RichD
    replied
    The car has a 15 tooth crown gear, going to a 19 tooth gear would possibly reduce the top speed and make it more difficult to drive, at least with the stock tires. Another guy in my club plans on comparing the performance with the 15 tooth VS the 19 tooth crown. I have not yet measured the magnets. I have matched pairs of magnets up to 930 gauss. The TFX had minimal magnetic downforce in spite of the fact that the magnets are closer to the rails, so I would expect that they are not terribly powerful. Stronger magnets might reduce the car's top speed and more downforce might bog the car down, we will have to see. Experienced tuners like to try different magnets.
    My own testing with pancake cars indicates that there is a sweet spot with respect to tire diameters. Going up or down just one size can make a bigger difference than you would expect. I will have to order tires in the appropriate size range.

    Leave a comment:


  • keven
    replied
    Was that with a 15-tooth crown or 19-tooth?
    the hum was from the armature (not the plastic gears?)…
    swap out the grey dragon magnets for white or black dragon magnets should changes things up, too!
    Changing rear tire OD to nearly match the crown gear OD seem to be the way to go…

    Leave a comment:


  • RichD
    replied
    My OS3 TFX arrived today, I oiled it, adjusted the pickup shoes, snapped in the guide pin and trimmed it to the proper length. The pickup shoe tension measured 2.8g, the tires were 0.352” in diameter as advertised. The axle, armature shaft and cluster gear shaft holes were the correct diameter and the idler gear was a perfect fit on its post. The armature measured 17.1 ohms at 75°F. The total weight with a Fray Lamborghini body and screws was 18.2 grams. The downforce measured 8.6 grams on my homemade tester compared to 24.3 grams for a 2nd generation T-Dash with Killer Bee magnets. I will measure the TFX magnets when I get a chance. At 18 volts the car read 2.40 on my VRP dyno, my regular cars were already prepped and packed away for tomorrow’s race, I will run some of the pancake cars on the dyno later on.
    I ran the car around my ~50 foot MaxTrax road course without a body using an OS3 All Pro Elite controller, a small amount of brakes was needed. The car ran smoothly with some humming from the gears at higher speeds. The car had good acceleration and top speed. Rear grip was a limiting factor, the car never deslotted, it would just spin out at the limit. The tires did seem to get better as they scuffed in. The best lap time was 5.745 seconds compared to a full race T-Jet SS with silicone on sponge tires at about 5.4 seconds. With an Auto World ’70 Camaro body the car did 5.985 seconds and I had to turn the brakes up a notch. With a Fray type Lamborghini body the best lap time dropped to 5.595 seconds. I intend to try different tires in the future, with more grip the car may need more weight up front, an inexpensive E-Fray type front end might do the trick.
    I was very pleased with the car, it runs great with no tweaks, if we do not run them in a new class we will probably have some for IROC style racing.

    Leave a comment:


  • RichD
    replied
    My OS3 TFX car is in the mail, I should have it very soon. A fellow club member got several cars yesterday, he did not get a chance to run them yet, but he noted that the gear mesh is good. I expect to be at his place for a race on Sunday, so I can check the cars out in case my car had not arrived by then. I was wondering what the diameter of the rear wheels were. T-Jets have 0.170" diameter wheels.
    It is my intention to evaluate the car as it comes, then see if there might be any minor tweaks that might be done to increase its performance.

    Leave a comment:


  • RichD
    replied
    If I recall correctly AutoWorld ThunderJet 500 Ultras have an 18 tooth crown gear. If you wanted to use a brass pinion in a TFX car you might need to use a T-Jet crown gear as well if you are looking for a perfect mesh.

    Leave a comment:


  • mowyang
    replied
    OS3 says the TFX crown gears mesh well with their 11T pinion but not as well with Aurora's pinions so racers experimenting with these different combos have been forewarned.
    Standard tjet crowns have 15 teeth, so that's an easy substitute. The Super II had a 19T crown; not sure if another 19T crown was ever made for the tjet.

    Using a 9T pinion and a 15T crown on the TFX gives a ratio of 3.48:1.
    Using a 9T pinion and a 19T crown on the TFX gives a ratio of 4.41:1

    Leave a comment:

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