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Regulating T-Jet Downforce

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  • NicoRosberg.
    replied
    That sounds a great idea.

    Leave a comment:


  • Wet Coast Racer
    replied
    Originally posted by Maddman View Post
    With regard to the pin test being faulty. The old pin test worked. It can work again. Smart people can manufacture such a device much easier than they can design a repeatable gauge out of poor quality kitchen scales.
    It sounds like your kind of project, or maybe RichD? There's a lot of smart people in this hobby really, we're lucky about that.

    Possibly the folks at Magnet Marshall would be interested?

    Leave a comment:


  • NicoRosberg.
    replied
    I did not misinterpret anything. I merely asked what your opinion was.

    As for the lift test, you are probably right, but so far nobody has made it work again for the Fray. When was it dropped?

    I think it much more productive that those smart people design a repeatable digital gauge, but it will probably never happen.

    Leave a comment:


  • Maddman
    replied
    Thanks for misinterpreting what I said. I am not in favor of prototype parts being allowed. There are classes that do allow such things. Most do not. That being said a lot of "legal" stuff is being shoved out for purchase that is not widely available.

    With regard to the pin test being faulty. The old pin test worked. It can work again. Smart people can manufacture such a device much easier than they can design a repeatable gauge out of poor quality kitchen scales.

    Leave a comment:


  • NicoRosberg.
    replied
    You think it is right that products not all racers can obtain be legal?

    The fact the lift pin was dropped shows it's major flaw, it isn't adaptable.

    Something that can give measurements, repeatably, is going to be much better. Our hobby still has lots of clever people in it, surely it can be done.

    Leave a comment:


  • Maddman
    replied
    Originally posted by NicoRosberg. View Post
    Dash products are not available to all, so they should not be allowed, period.
    Tell that to the Fray organizers and other groups that allow Dash products and other not widely available items. In turn they will tell you something you may not wish to hear.

    Seriously, the Fray started with the John Deere lift pin test years ago. It worked. The pins were inexpensive, widely available and were all alike. If you car picked up the pin it was illegal. A short, easy to administer test. I don't know why it was dropped. It could be that the lift pin test was dropped as AW, Dash and other "modern" ceramic magnets would fail the test. Maybe its time to bring back a similar lift pin test with the pin made by a third party such as the one made by Scale Engineering for the HOPRA Gravity car class.
    Last edited by Maddman; 11-02-2021, 01:01 PM.

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  • NicoRosberg.
    replied
    Dash products are not available to all, so they should not be allowed, period.

    Leave a comment:


  • slotn77
    replied
    Originally posted by NicoRosberg. View Post
    The problem is that is people keep dissing these meters, they won't get better, and 'experimenting' (as per the earlier comment. In reality, cheating) will continue.

    If the devices are used more, warts and all, there will be an incentive to improve them.

    Eventually the guy who buys 500 magnets looking for the magic pair will find he has wasted him time and money.

    That has to be a good thing, but it won't happen with current attitudes.
    That’s the hope anyway. The bottom line is that there is simply too much disparity between Killer Bee magnets. And having to buy 500 in hopes of getting to where you need to be competitively is silly. I don’t do the Fray anymore because of the magnet situation (and the fact that they permit non-commercially available tires). These two rule missteps have created a situation where only a handful of drivers are truly competing on the same playing field.

    My track has a 7.0g limit rule using the house VRP MDM. If your car exceeds that, you just put larger tires on until you don’t. We now mostly run the new OS3 TFX platform. With Black Dragon magnets, this car is hoot to drive. And, of the many we’ve tested, they are all very comparable in terms of downforce. No Dash magnets allowed.
    Last edited by slotn77; 11-02-2021, 10:22 AM.

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  • Dyno Dom
    replied
    Ernie, At this past Wed, race nite I was presented the subject without having to bring it up. I did question the validity of 3.1 on the club scale and was told it was picked thru evaluation within the span of cars and the # was not at the highest level but somewhere close. The rules do state ANY AW/JL or Dash Blue/White motor mags but apparently some want the 3.1 as a limit to any club racers who might possess a good crop of "legal" Blue/White mags.

    Leave a comment:


  • NicoRosberg.
    replied
    Surely you won't have to outdrive them, if they try and start with magnets that are not allowed, turf 'em.

    Leave a comment:


  • BIG E
    replied
    Dom, let's forget this 4 page mess and talk about it on race night. It will be made plain and simple -- certain types of magnets will be allowed, anything else is NOT allowed. If these guys can't get that though their heads, then F them and I'll just have to outdrive 'em! I HATE all this bickering about how much money we can throw at these cars. You know as well as I do that some of these idiots just won't give it a break -- soon they will start in about the tech procedure, and it goes on and on...
    See ya soon -- Ernie

    Leave a comment:


  • NicoRosberg.
    replied
    Originally posted by SouthShoreRacing View Post
    Experimenting is exactly that. Cheating is when you knowingly break a rule. .
    It is quite clear what Big E and Dom are talking about, hence ''experimenting'' - the Quotation marks being key.

    Leave a comment:


  • BIG E
    replied
    Originally posted by Dyno Dom View Post
    Hi Ernie, many of the guys are returning from the pandemic, and they are Fast. Yes, some have stretched the rules during the lax period, let's call it experimenting, but we're attempting to straighten that out. I hope all is well and to see you soon.
    Yes, Dom, I know. "Experimenting"... guys like Junior Johnson, Ray Evernham, and Gary Nelson were professionals at the black art. Gary Nelson became NASCAR's policeman and keeper of the building where all the confiscated "experimental" pieces are stored! Hope to see you soon. -- Ernie

    Leave a comment:


  • Dyno Dom
    replied
    Thanks for all the great info. I have a Lucky Bob lift pin which states for T-Jets, we will have to play with that for comparison to more current manufacturer's mags. As SSR suggests, we do plan to use a single scale at race site and for comparison I know my scale measures 2.2g higher which gives me a # for limit.

    Leave a comment:


  • model murdering
    replied
    Dom,

    How about adopting a simple "lift pin" test and going racing, while you wait for NASA to re-invent the wheel; and measure every pair of blue n whiteys on the planet.

    Bill

    Leave a comment:

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