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Regulating T-Jet Downforce

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  • Dyno Dom
    replied
    Thanks, good info. Some in the club want a finite max # of 3.1 on club scale while others want to limit use for any Blue/White motor mags from AW/JL and Dash.
    I'm attempting to validate the 3.1 # among the span for the Blue/White mags??

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  • keven
    replied
    My favorite cheat:

    “there was no regulation on the size of the fuel line. Obviously, it didn’t take Smokey very long to capitalize on that non-rule. He made a fuel line that was two inches wide and 11 feet long, closer in dimension to an anaconda than a fuel line. Although it sounds pretty funny, the monster fuel line held an extra 5 gallons of gasoline, which made a very real difference on the track (until it was banned, of course).”

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  • Axle
    replied
    Originally posted by Dyno Dom View Post
    Any suggestions on regulating club rules for T-Jet SS type chassis using AW/JL and Dash type motor magnets?? Scales differ for measurement but are there parameters if using a common scale??
    Wizzard is selling the "Doane DigiTune Magnet Scale". wizzardho DOT com SLASH doane-magnet-scale

    This scale sells for $75, and is based on a $13 Harbor Freight gram scale. The claim is that each scale is individually calibrated and that any scales should report similar values for the same car.

    ECHORR has adopted this as a standard for their SS class rules, which are nearly identical to the Fray Tjet rules. From echorr.com:

    Magnets:
    9. Downforce of car not to exceed 6.5 on the Doanes calibrated scale.

    The Wizzard page also mentions that the Ohio Cup and HOPRA are using it as well. I think this scale rule was adopted about a year ago by ECHORR. It'll be interesting to see if it sticks. I'm not aware of anyone else trying to regulate T-jet magnets in any other way, other than restricting the make/model of the magnets allowed.

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  • NicoRosberg.
    replied
    That in itself would be a big deal.

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  • RichD
    replied
    Dash switched to a different supplier because the magnets from his original supplier could vary quite a lot in strength. The earlier Dash magnets could be as much as 930 gauss, but the later ones were as low as 650 gauss. The newer Killer Bee magnets can also vary somewhat, I have only measured five pairs and those were around 900 gauss. Some people have complained that a few people were able to get magnets that were perhaps 950 gauss and would possibly have an unfair advantage. At that time it was proposed that the downforce of the cars should be measured as part of the pre-race tech inspection, but as far as I know nothing came of that. The DigiTune would probably the best thing to use for HO cars. I use a tester of my own construction to get relative downforce measurements.
    The obvious question to ask is how much impact does the strength of the magnets actually have on the performance of a T-Jet SS type car. You would expect that using more powerful magnets would result in a more powerful motor. My own testing has indicated that the effect of stronger magnets is not linear. I believe that is because stronger magnets result in more back EMF, so the effective voltage that the motor will see will start to go down. Too much magnet will reduce the top speed of a car for several reasons. Fanatic tuners will try magnets of different strengths to find what works best.
    The strength of the car's magnets would also have an impact on how much magnetic downforce the car would have. The amount of downforce would vary with both the strength of the magnets and the distance between the magnets and the track rails. Since that downforce varies with the square of the distance minor differences in tire OD would have a greater impact than you would expect. Some years ago I bought a Bacher built T-Jet SS car. The magnets were labeled 730 gauss. Some day I will have to take my own measurements, but they may or may not agree. In any case that is often my fastest car, but it has minimal downforce on my tester, 7.0 grams. A Dash chassis with ~930 gauss Killer Bee magnets is the fastest car that I have built myself, it measures 24.3 grams. Both cars use the same make and size tires and have the same front end and shoe tension. The Bacher car handles slightly better and the Dash car has a bit more power.
    It would not be practical to measure the gauss values of the magnets on race day. The DigiTune would give you downforce readings and those would be partly influenced by the magnet strength.
    I am not totally convinced that downforce readings would have a lot of value. If someone would take readings of a lot of cars it might be possible to get a better idea of what might be going on. As it stands now the readings would only tell you if someone was using illegal magnets.

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  • NicoRosberg.
    replied
    There is the Doane DigiTune Magnet scale, and of course the Magnet Marshal 2 that this site sells.

    There is also resistance from long standing racers in both pancake and magnet racing circles to such scales, and classes defined by downforce - for obvious reasons.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dyno Dom
    started a topic Regulating T-Jet Downforce

    Regulating T-Jet Downforce

    Any suggestions on regulating club rules for T-Jet SS type chassis using AW/JL and Dash type motor magnets?? Scales differ for measurement but are there parameters if using a common scale??
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