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Where to find a 36D for a vintage Testor sidewinder

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  • Where to find a 36D for a vintage Testor sidewinder

    When I was a kid I found my dad's Testors (Testor?) 1/24 Hemi Special. He took me to the local track and (after finding some new tires that sort of fit) we ran it a bit. I really liked the wheelies. I still have his car, but I recently picked up another one on Ebay to fix up and run. There is a track about 1.5 hours away. I thought I might take my son and go do some wheelies.

    This chassis is a sidewinder using a FT36D, with threaded 5-40 1/8" axle and threaded gear that is just about the size of the rear tires.

    Finding correct rear tires was a problem when I went with my dad, and appears to still be so. I need both wheels and tires. First, it seems like no one uses threaded wheels. There are set-screw wheels for 1/8" axles, but the stuff at sites like Professor Motor and Electric Dreams are usually listed by application, and don't give enough information for me to figure out dimensions or what tires fit what wheels.

    After a lot of searching I found H&R Racing makes tire and wheel sets that are 27mm, which is close to the 1.1" OD I'm looking for, but are all set-screw type. After even more searching I found Pro-Track. The site lists 5-40 threaded wheels that are about the right size, but I don't know where to get them and Pro-Track seems to be very slow to respond to email.

    So after all that, I found a bunch of vintage Weldun 64 pitch gears on Ebay that are close to the original tooth count and use set screws. I'm going to try to switch to a set-screw type rear axle and see if I have room for the set screw boss on both wheel and driven gear and not end up too wide overall. I'm waiting for parts. We'll see if that works.

    But here is where I'm stuck. I'd like to get another 36D and don't know what or where to look. The original motor doesn't seem to be in top shape, and I'd like to avoid pressing the original pinion off in order to play with alternate gears. I got a random NOS one from Ebay and it's a slug. The stock one measures about 1.5 ohms per winding, while the Ebay one is 6 or 7 ohms.

    Where can I find a good, or at least chassis appropriate, 36D? There are several different variations on Ebay (white, green, yellow, red) but none of them advertise the resistance or other details. Also, are the output shafts all the same size? I have pinion gears that are intended for a 0.090" shaft.

    Would it make more sense to send the NOS slowpoke I just bought out for someone to rewind? Does anyone still rewind 36D motors? At least then I'd know exactly what I was getting.

    Here are some random pictures of the chassis (not mine) for reference.

    testors-124-top.jpg testors-124-bottom.jpg

  • #2
    Give Professor Motor (google) a try

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by jmacartney View Post
      Give Professor Motor (google) a try
      I have looked over the site. I see five parts that would fit (Revell, Monogram, Cox, "Green"). The Cox NASCAR is the only one that gives some detail (32k rpm), but I don't know how that compares to what I started with. I just don't know anything about the different options or brands. Of course I could contact Professor Motor for a recommendation, but I haven't had much luck getting detailed responses from vendors regarding this specific chassis.

      Comment


      • #4
        Hi Axle, The Monogram, Revell and K&B 36D motors you have been looking at , will be identical in performance to the "Tempest" (Testors' name for their 36D).

        Both the Cox Nascar and the Champion will have slightly more performance, but not a ton more.

        As you are aware , your Testors chassis required a can drive motor, so keep this in mind.

        Hope this helps

        Cheers
        Chris Walker

        PS,...just saw you update to your initial post

        1/ With very few exceptions....Cox Nascar, and the Champion, all the stock FT-36D motors .......Classsic, K&B, Ranalli, Monogram, Revell, Testors, etc. were basically identical except that each manufacturer, specified their own can colour when ordering from Mabuchi (who made 99% of these motors.

        2/ You can have your motor rewound, (and there are a few reputable guys who do that) but, it will likely need other bits and pieces to match the new rewound arm.......a comm., new magnets, can end bushing, endbell, brushes/springs etc. etc. and will certainly cost considerably more than a new old stock motor.

        3/ All 36D motors have .091 motor shafts so your pinions will be fine, assuming they are in good shape

        My recommendation is to buy a new old stock motor, try it out, and if you need more, we can go from there.


        Last edited by chrisguyw; 04-07-2021, 02:03 PM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Thanks for the help and information Chris.

          Originally posted by chrisguyw View Post
          1/ With very few exceptions....Cox Nascar, and the Champion, all the stock FT-36D motors .......Classsic, K&B, Ranalli, Monogram, Revell, Testors, etc. were basically identical
          I had read somewhere that most of the 36Ds were very similar, which is why I took a chance on the NOS one. I just measured the armature again, and came up with 7.3 ohms. I wonder what this thing is from. Maybe not even a slot car.

          Originally posted by chrisguyw View Post
          2/ You can have your motor rewound, (and there are a few reputable guys who do that)
          Do you have any names you could mention or recommend? Google turned up a few slot car motor builders (Alpha, Fast Ones, Camen), but I don't know anything about them or if they would mess with a 36D.

          My recommendation is to buy a new old stock motor, try it out
          I would go for the Cox NASCAR, mostly because it actually has a part number associated with it (3500) but the output shaft seems a bit short for my set-screw pinions. Outside of that I'm still a bit not sure which way to go. There are a lot of options. I feel like I could end up with a big pile of motors if I just go buying random 36Ds.

          Here is another question. I see some motors and armatures labeled as 1.5V, 4.5V, 6V, 8V, 9V. Is that the target track voltage? Did folks run these cars at 4.5V? And for that matter, what would the a typical track voltage be today at a commercial 1/24 track?

          Comment


          • #6
            Slot Car Central has both endbell and can drive 36D motors.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Axle View Post
              Thanks for the help and information Chris.



              I had read somewhere that most of the 36Ds were very similar, which is why I took a chance on the NOS one. I just measured the armature again, and came up with 7.3 ohms. I wonder what this thing is from. Maybe not even a slot car.



              Do you have any names you could mention or recommend? Google turned up a few slot car motor builders (Alpha, Fast Ones, Camen), but I don't know anything about them or if they would mess with a 36D.



              I would go for the Cox NASCAR, mostly because it actually has a part number associated with it (3500) but the output shaft seems a bit short for my set-screw pinions. Outside of that I'm still a bit not sure which way to go. There are a lot of options. I feel like I could end up with a big pile of motors if I just go buying random 36Ds.

              Here is another question. I see some motors and armatures labeled as 1.5V, 4.5V, 6V, 8V, 9V. Is that the target track voltage? Did folks run these cars at 4.5V? And for that matter, what would the a typical track voltage be today at a commercial 1/24 track?


              Hi Axle,......All of the motor builders you mentioned will likely not be interested in working on your 36D motors, or any vintage motors for that matter,...that also goes for ProSlot, Koford, etc. they all really specialize in more modern motors, and they will also not have the vintage parts you may need. What exactly are you looking to do, and what are you comfortable with spending ??. It should be mentioned that the stock Testors chassis is OK at best, but, with a hotter motor will need some modifications. I would seriously try one before attempting any mods.,......any of these will be able to do wheel stands on your chassis.



              Of the motors you have looked at, I would start with the "Champion" 36D available from Professor motor. It has the best magnets, and will therefore be a better candidate for modifications should you need them. It also has long can end motor shaft, which will work with your set screw pinions (which you may want to consider trashing, and replacing them with some press on pinions).

              Disregard manufacturer voltage claims on these vintage 36D arms,......most are marketing at best, they all were designed to work and work well at 12 volts, which was the typical voltage for all the commercial tracks in the day. Most current commercial tracks run anywhere between 12 and 13.8 volts, and any stock 36D will be fine at these voltages.

              Cheers
              Chris Walker

              Comment


              • #8
                just take about 20-30 turns off one and see how it runs. that's what i used to do.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by chrisguyw View Post
                  Of the motors you have looked at, I would start with the "Champion" 36D available from Professor motor. It has the best magnets, and will therefore be a better candidate for modifications should you need them. It also has long can end motor shaft, which will work with your set screw pinions (which you may want to consider trashing, and replacing them with some press on pinions).
                  Thanks again Chris. I appreciate your understanding the root of my question better than I did when I started. I realize now that what I really needed was a specific recommendation.

                  Just to confirm, for the Professor Motor "Champion" 36D, are you referring to the double shaft one? That's the only one I see but I thought I'd double check.

                  I have the set-screw gears, axle, and wheels in hand, but it's proving to be trickier than I had hoped. The geometry is pretty tightly constrained, and anything outside of the stock configuration doesn't really work. The set-screw boss on the driven gear and wheel combined make the rear track too wide. If I mount the gear side wheel backwards (boss out) the track width is good, but the pinion boss hits the tire. And I tried 18/54 gears instead of the stock 20/60 but the reduced axle to motor spacing doesn't work. I can't find a 60 tooth driven gear. The closest I've found is 58T and 64T. 64 is too big for the tire.

                  You mention a press-fit pinion. This would help with tire clearance. Do you know of another source for gears?

                  I found a Sonic Products 64P 20 tooth press-fit pinion, but I can't tell if it will fit on the 36D shaft. Sonic also sell 64P spur gears, but they are made for 3/32 axles. I'll try contacting them and see what happens.

                  This is turning into quite a project.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hi Axle,........the "Champion" 36D at Professor motor is the one with the double ended motor shaft(s).......that is the one I would buy.

                    A press on pinion, will allow you to narrow the rear track considerably more than using a set screw pinion..........and to be honest, epay is likely the best place to look.

                    Professor motor does have a few various Weldun 64P spur gears listed, and these can also be found on epay..............if you really get stuck, you can go to 48P Cox gears (Pinion and Spur), which are much easier to find.

                    Sonic gears are excellent, but, are not made for .091 motor shafts, or, 1/8 axles, and boring them is far from easy (to do correctly).

                    The Testors chassis does allow for a bit of fore/aft movement of the motor, and I would try to select gear diameters/tooth counts that allow for a slightly higher numeric ratio.......I would try for something in the 3.5 to 3.75 to 1 range.

                    Cheers
                    Chris Walker

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Here is a Cox can drive 36D from Slot Car Central that should drop right in.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by chrisguyw View Post
                        Hi Axle,........the "Champion" 36D at Professor motor is the one with the double ended motor shaft(s).......that is the one I would buy.
                        Thank you again.

                        Originally posted by chrisguyw View Post
                        Sonic gears are excellent, but, are not made for .091 motor shafts, or, 1/8 axles, and boring them is far from easy (to do correctly).
                        My only hope would be that they would be willing to make some for me. I figured it didn't hurt to ask.

                        The Testors chassis does allow for a bit of fore/aft movement of the motor, and I would try to select gear diameters/tooth counts that allow for a slightly higher numeric ratio.......I would try for something in the 3.5 to 3.75 to 1 range.
                        I just made took a bunch of measurements and made a spreadsheet of all the options. Between the size of the motor can, and the tire diameter, the gear options are very limited. Any gear combination with a center-center distance less than about 0.615" and the motor can will touch the axle. The stock 20/60 64P gears have a center-center distance of 0.625". At 19/60 it's 0.617, which might squeak by. Moving to a larger axle gear starts to get close to the tire diameter. With a 1-1/16" tire (1.0625), a 61T 64P is has an OD of 0.984", which seems a bit close. So 19/61 is about the best I think I could get away with, making the ratio 3.21 to 1.

                        I've got a line on a 60T set-screw Weldun, but I'm also going to look into 48P gears as you suggested. A 14/45 or 14/46 might work, if I can find a 36D pinion in that size.

                        Here is a Cox can drive 36D from Slot Car Central that should drop right in.
                        Thanks Rich. Slot Car Central probably has the best prices, and I've ordered plenty of stuff from there. But the output shaft is short on that Cox motor. The motor I have has an output length of about 0.350", which just fits the set-screw pinions I have. I think the 0.215" length of that Cox would be too short. We'll see if I can find other pinions.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Hi Axle,......You can certainly contact Phil Hackett at Sonic, but, I would be surprised if he would consider doing one or two custom gears,...and if he would, I think you may be surprised at the price.

                          Going with 48P gears may be a wise choice, as there are certainly a lot around, and finding a "thin" 48P pinion (to help with width clearance) will not be that difficult........I did just check epay, and there are a few new 14T 48P .091/93 bore pinions available. ( I have dealt with seller "Hce55" several times, and he has some 14T 48p .093 bore pinions currently available.......I can vouch that he is a reputable seller).

                          Whichever pitch you end up with , try to gear as numerically high as you can.............somewhere in the 3.5 :1 range.

                          Cheers
                          Chris Walker

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                          • #14
                            Professor Motor has multiple brands available

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                            • #15
                              These motors have a longer shaft, but you would need brushes and brush springs.

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