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Penalty for a tire change???

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  • #16
    Greg - What you stated is perfectly justified...since you are a fellow GT competitor, what if I request my status as a competitor in the GT class be ruled a last place finish in the final standings, but allow my Capri to continue with the change of tires and show its position throughout the remainder of the series until the end??? I have already been told that the tire change has improved its performance substantially and you'd probably be more upset if that was to be officially allowed.

    My main reason for unfortunately opening the can marked worms was that my tire choice has proved totally wrong and wanted to alleviate anyone from having to drive the car as it is now either by allowing a tire change or withdrawing it. Do note I did ask for a penalty to be assessed and in no way was asking for a mulligan.

    Having Fun - Da Vols
    Last edited by Da Vols; 01-08-2007, 08:53 AM.


    • #17
      As they say down under...

      Hey Bruce, No worries mate!

      I don't want to start dictating who scores and who doesn't that was not really my intention. To a certain extent I don't really care about final standings. It is a toy car race after all.

      The point of my post was to highlight that practices that seem fair, equitable and sportsmanlike from the front of the leader board can in fact look a little different from further back. Don't get me wrong I like the intentions of the organizers its just a little disheartening to see my tenuous mid-pack position become even more unlikely.

      My hope is that with many tracks still to go in the series the fat lady isn't even warming up yet.

      AND I've implemented plan B a VooDoo charm that puts a thin layer of Teflon on the surface of Ortmann tires...


      • #18
        I'm told Ortmanns work great on Teflon...


        • #19
          Greg/Attic Racer,
          I have been told by Terry that your car has had some minor truing done to the tires, which Terry reported has smoothed the car out, somewhat. This is a relatively trivial fix. We can't really undo that, so the car will go forward with slightly more true tires than it had when submitted.

          The cars which are being built into contenders for slightly more than a guaranteed bottom spot were rebuilt for two reasons: they could not be driven as-is, and they are (presumably) providing no fun to their owner-builders, in a guaranteed dead last position.

          While your Ninco Porsche 911 is slow, I hadn't included it in the lowest group until I saw its lap totals. It had no severe vices on my track, other than general slowness. I included it with the three others because the motor jumped out of the frame due to severe hop on Terry's track, during GT qualifying. Evidently Terry has done nothing more than mildly true the tires. I don't know if he has glued the motor in.

          As I said before, the penalty for these repairs should be the laps they have already lost by their poor performance. I suggested to Terry that the cars not be repaired until AFTER the GT race was run, which would increase the penalty to the laps they lost in two races. I think he has (mostly) fixed them BEFORE the GT race, due to their general undrivability. I support this as his track-host prerogative.

          I did not want to penalize the cars a whole race's worth because they have not actually broken down under race conditions.

          Please note that cars which are submitted in barely running condition, or with plainly wrong tires, are not addressed by our rules:
          "Running inspection of cars will be made before each race. Cars may be lubricated. Minor repairs such as braid, wire, or screw replacement; gear adjustment; or wheel reattachment, will take place before race, and will not be penalized. If car breaks during race, track owner/staff may repair car during race time, and return to race, losing only race time needed for repair. Broken car, if running, may complete race at track owner’s discretion. Major repairs which take longer than race time, such as chassis fix, guide fix; gear or motor replacement, will be completed at the track, but car will be listed as “DNS” or “DNF”, and will receive no lap credit for that race. If car owner wishes car to be sent home for repair between races, car will miss one race. This could be the race just completed, at which breakdown may have occurred (resulting in DNS/DNF, or race completed by a broken car), or the following race, by owner's choice."

          I indeed acknowledge the impact decisions have. In general, we are running a fair and fun race. Unfortunately, "you can please some of the people some of the time, but not all of the people all of the time."

          Originally posted by attic_racer View Post
          I'm not sure where this leaves me, I guess as the 16th placed GT / 32nd place overall car (already behind some entrants that received remedial build assistance during tech) I am one of the folks most impacted by this decision. Am I a complainer? Read on and decide for yourself...

          First of all I'm not withdrawing and I don't want work done on my car.

          On the flip side, it will be very hard to be proud of my first effort in proxy racing if I finish at or near the bottom of the leader board in part because a half dozen of the cars ahead of me received building/tuning assistance from the race organizers.

          Who am I actually racing against for mid-pack bragging rights - the folks who entered their car or the kind hearted proxy veterans who rebuilt them?

          I appreciate the spirit in which the organizers choose to work on cars that are doing poorly but they should at least acknowledge the impact these decisions have on other entrants ability to enjoy participating in the series.



          • #20
            Hi Robert,

            I agree with the great Abe Lincoln regarding pleasing people. I just wanted to point out that working on the bottom of the leader board while making them more drivable also causes other cars to drop in the standings. I feel I have been heard maybe even understood.

            The rest of your remarks confuse me because my car is the Fly Racing 911RS in #59 Brumos Porsche colors. Kazooracer owns the NINCO Jagermeister 934. What work gets done to his car is between Kazooracer, the organizers and Terry - not me.

            ...still cooking up effigies of Ortmann tires and looking for pins, needles, a small lizard and some wasabi paste...


            • #21
              Ooops, that #59 Porsche is confusing me again. Happens every time. First I thought it had a factory paint job (or Bart did), now I've confused it with the other one. I wish I could blame Bart for that.

              The #59 Brumos is the one with the basement racer home-cast silicone tires, right? And black Sauber 6 spoke inserts, right? All from memory. Got it.

              I was thinking yours was Kazooracer's orange Jagermeister 934 . . . which we have listed as a 911. That one is the Ninco with working suspension, and is at the bottom of the heap. My comments apply to that car, as if you were its owner and were making the comments you made.

              So anyway, thanks for the reality check. I do agree that fixing a car on the bottom of the heap that is well-nigh undrivable will upset a few applecarts, as it must displace someone (or several someones) if it rises in the standings. But at least from the drivers' point of view, it is an improvement, as a bad car is no fun to drive.

              I better shut up now.


              • #22
                That's my car! Except I'm pretty certain that the home cast tires are some kind of urethane NOT silicone.

                Apparently I'm using the wrong VooDoo recipe - I got the nobody-can remember-this-car when I wanted the snuff-the-traction-of-Ortmanns. That's what happens when you mess with forces you don't understand...

                GPR GT #59 Brumos Porsche 911RS (White Fly Racer)


                • #23
                  We could start a thread called "Voodoo in the GPR."

                  The Case of the Invisible Porsche (or, how to make the Attic Racer 911 appear to be the Kazooracer 934).

                  Terry's got the Mojo Beads which Smokeio used as a seat cushion.


                  • #24
                    Terry's got the Mojo Beads which Smokeio used as a seat cushion.
                    Oooooh noooooo. You let out my speed secret.

                    VooDoo is the bottle of CARGOFAST WPSOKO1 sprayed on his tires before he shipped his car out.


                    • #25
                      I think I'll just try to win without no mojo or nothin' ...


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Wet Coast Racer View Post
                        I think I'll just try to win without no mojo or nothin' ...
                        Is he the black sheep of the O'Nuttin family, this Nomojo guy, that you are abandoning him?


                        • #27
                          In the O'Nuttin family, it's the white sheep who are frowned upon ...


                          • #28
                            I'm gonna get whacked for this...

                            Although at the risk of being lynched by some of you guys, I would have a proposition...

                            What if the last four (or two, or three...) cars of each race were allowed to receive mild improvements?

                            Now let me get outta here fast!!!



                            • #29

                              I thought about this possibility when I said the bottom four could receive some help. But, there are a couple of reasons why this will not happen in the GPR.

                              The cars are just beginning the GPR, and the cars in the bottom four were found to be difficult to drive on two tracks. Some had already been worked over on the first track, and were still in trouble. Two of the owners had said they would withdraw the cars. Since the cars are headed for various continents and unknown conditions, I though it best to give the cars the best send-off we could.

                              If we work on every car in the bottom four, we will probably end up re-working half the field by the end. That is a lot of work, and that kind of work is a lot to ask of track hosts.

                              Since ALL the cars are presumably now drivable and ready to race, there is no good reason to keep fixing up more cars.

                              We made no provision in the rules as to how to deal with cars which may not have broken during the racing, but do (or did) have serious mechanical problems. The fix-the-bottom-four was a sort of emergency measure to address that omission. Consequently, we have included lap penalties for exactly that reason in the upcoming Slot.It Shoot Out Proxy Summer Series.

                              One of the big problems and frustrations in proxy racing is the inability of an entrant to "reach" their car, pull it into the pits, and change something. In the future, I think a provision like that should be included in a proxy series. Currently, I am thinking that a proxy race series should be less a simulation of a single, long endurance race, and more a simulation of a multi-race event like the Tour de France, which included track races, rally stages between race tracks, and possibly a hill climb or two. In a race-series like that, there would be time to work on cars between events.

                              I could go on and on. But no, the bottom four will not qualify for remedial work, and hopefully breakdowns will be the only mechanical issues we address.


                              • #30
                                I told you so...

                                At least I was only mildly clobbered...

                                Points taken Dr. Livingston.



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