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4TH RAAce, "The Coffin", Toronto, Ontario, Canada

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  • Originally posted by RECKLESSRACER

    This car sounds like no other .... hit the gas and it's like a supercharger was unleashed, we'll see how far the gears make it! Speaking of which, with taller gearing I think a better lap total could have been achieved. The top speed was reached quite early on the back straight. All in all a satisfying car to drive.
    Eric --

    Thanks for a great run! That really IS a pretty car (wish I had a bigger version of this image), even if it IS a midpack ho-hummer. And even though it's blue, THINK RED! Except for wheels, tires, and axles, this honker is pure (well, I *did* modify it a bit) Ninco -- I wished at the time I built it that Ninco had a somewhat higher gear, as the NC-5 certainly has adequate torque, but Ninco's "Pro" stuff wasn't out at that time. Ah, well -- we'll see how it fares in its swan song race.

    Speaking of shrieking, Dr. Vanski (I believe) posted some shorter GTS-category videos than the 20+ minute one, and one of the short ones had some great audio from the Screamin' Supra, but now I can't find it (and I didn't DL it when I had the chance). Anybody know where that video went? I want to grab the audio with WireTap Pro...

    Thanks again to all the guys who slaved at The Coffin!



    • No problem Eric. Actually I'm surprised you didn't take it for an NC-1 - it has been "smooth" at all of the races, but pretty pathetic power-wise. I thought maybe the slowness was the Ninco motor at low voltage, but it has been a consistent backmarker at the higher voltages of the last two tracks. It is geared at 3.11 which I thought might give it a little more pop out of the corners. It's pretty clear to me by now that the design is just not competitive. I'm pulling it after the next race - I've learned all I need to know about this car and I can see no good reason for the hosts to have to spend already pressed-upon time on what is consistently a 20th+ place car - sort of a self-imposed DNQ (as is being discussed on another thread).

      I was hoping my LMP entry would do better, and it was 8th at ACE, but slipped to 19th at the Coffin. I'm eagerly awaiting Dr Vanski's comments to give me a clue on what happened. But I guess there are just a lot of variables that react differently at different tracks.


      • Note to Nutkillah!

        Hey Nutkiller,

        You might be in line for a tire change soon:

        Your LMP car ran awesome even with the chunked tire and finished second. Brent, keep an eye on this as your race progresses. I think it will be more of a problem on mag tracks though.


        • Racersolo Nissan R390

          Originally posted by racersolo
          I was hoping my LMP entry would do better, and it was 8th at ACE, but slipped to 19th at the Coffin. I'm eagerly awaiting Dr Vanski's comments to give me a clue on what happened. But I guess there are just a lot of variables that react differently at different tracks.
          My LMP driving impressions are back in post #175. These were made after qualifying the LMP cars. I will comment further on any cars if the builder has any questions. My hands have been full with number crunching and attendant duties so I thought I'd get the driving impressions out of the way early.

          It's not realistic to expect the results at ACE to parallel the results at The Coffin for a number of reasons. The ACE track surface is plastic whereas The Coffin is River Rock paint. The straights at ACE are incredibly long and flat and allow a car to wind out to top speed a few times per lap. The Coffin is a very technical, undulating circuit that rewards front/rear balance, setup, grip, gearing and power.

          Your car was down on grip on The Coffin and could only be pushed so deep into corners. It also had the tendency to deslot over the hump which prevented maximum speed from being obtained down the back straight.

          I'd really advise you against pulling your cars. They are both good runners and it's not like playing with toy cars is a chore for those involved. I had a blast running even the slowest cars!
          Last edited by dr vanski; 03-18-2006, 09:56 AM.


          • Misunderstood

            Sorry Dr Vanski, I misunderstood. I had asked (post #176):

            Originally posted by racersolo
            Dr Vanski, thanks for the LMP info. Since my LMP car went from 8th at ACE to 16th here, I'm curious what happened. Your comments are a bit brief - "slidey in the corners." My best guess is that the tires (S1s) are not hooking up. I know that they drop in performance dramatically when they are not clean. Do you wipe down the tires of cars before races/heats? Is the Coffin not conducive to silicone tires? Do you think there are other issues with the car on your track that have made it comparatively slower? I do appreciate the difficulty of commenting on stranger's cars. It is, however, the only information I can go by on how the design is working. I will value whatever more information you can give me. Thanks.
            And, you replied (post #180)

            Originally posted by dr vanski
            I'll update r.e. your machine once we run the mag sleds. Both your cars are smooth runners.
            So I was thinking maybe you were planning on a further review. Your recent post answered most of my questions, except whether tires were cleaned (I have no idea what the rule/policy is on this).

            Thanks for the info, and your (and Eric's) excellent coverage of the 4th race.


            • LMP tires

              Sorry for the need of a reminder RacerSolo. All cars were run as-is. The surface at The Coffin is such that even stock tires hook up really well there. It was interesting how some cars handled the flat sections of Eric's track really well, but were easily upset by the elevation changes.

              Once all the cars are raced on flat tracks, look for considerable changes in the field.


              • Hey Racersolo, as opposed to track lickin' I have to admit I do a lot of tire lickin' ..... During the RAA I always cleaned the tires between heats, perhaps not using the scientifically proven and good housekeeping seal of approval method, but usually spit on the thumbs, and a good rubdown [sorry if I make racers grimace here]. The RiverRock paint on the "Coffin" does close the gap in the tire wars, but Supertires still win out, with Ortmann's a close second in gription. I have to profess that S1's have never worked that well for me, although I have bought and tried them on a couple of cars. I think the biggest factor in your LMP's performance was the dreaded "hump" on the backstraight ..... any cars with a rear weight or mag bias really had fits keeping in the slot here at full throttle.


                • The Marcos has been repaired. I replaced the front frame crossmember with a new one about three times thicker, and built a pin guide in the interest of durability and simplicity. I finally trued one rear tire correctly, getting rid of some annoying vibration back there. The car runs better than ever, and I was able to reduce the lead ballast, so the car weighs 87 grams (used to be 93 grams).

                  I have no idea what this is worth in penalty points, but I think I am so far behind it won't make much difference!

                  The guide mount failed because of a design error on my part. There was no way to fix it without it failing again, thus the front-end redesign.
                  Last edited by Robert Livingston; 03-18-2006, 02:37 PM.


                  • I guess if the tires go away it will end the series early for me. Those are the old compound Indy Grips and I don't have any more. Glad to hear it ran so well though. It's my 3rd fastest car at home, Carrera track, only a spider chassis and a modified scaley F1 are faster.


                    • info

                      Thanks guys, that helps a lot. The elevation changes on the back straight add a very interesting element to the track. Must have been really exciting for the CLKs given their history at Le Mans - 1999 I believe - if you're missing one, you might check the trees.


                      • Doc V, Reckless and the crew from 'The Coffin"....My gratz go out to ya for doing a fantastic job!!!!...One of my co-racers Jim Niell aka LolaT260 has some problems logging into SCI and would like to say Thanks guys for the support and kudos.....He will be here helping me in May........I'm not to sure how we(other race host) will compare to your stunning reports and seeing eyes for this last event...Very well done gents.....and rest assured we will give the same attention as well here in Colorado.........


                        • penalties

                          Originally posted by dr vanski
                          Are the penalties laps or points, i.e. do they get subtracted from the lap totals of the entrant or the point total?
                          Only the magnet in the car on a non-magnetic track subtracted from the laps, all other penalties are points.

                          Here are the penalties from RAAce 4 that require your ruling:

                          * The Professor Audi R8C - lost a body screw during a heat, and about a dozen laps until it was fixed, No penalty

                          * Dave Kennedy Maserati MC12 - pinion came loose after qualifying, fixed for the race, no penalty

                          * Fireball MB CLK - lost a wheel at the end of a heat, fixed for the next heat, 5 point penalty

                          * Robert Livingston Marcos - broken chassis sent back to him for repairs, penalty on hold

                          * DrVanski BMW M1 - held back for motor replacement (still runs - more like an NC1 than a black can) before being sent to Mr. Bugs in Edmonton 25 point penalty


                          • Marcos repairs:

                            Body work at nose repaired. Gussetts which support splitter replaced, as they had been knocked off:

                            Chassis repaired. New front crossmember fabricated, with pin guide. Old pivotting guide shoe could not be re-used:

                            Underside, showing pin guide, insulated with red plastic tubing:
                            Last edited by Robert Livingston; 03-19-2006, 01:06 PM.


                            • Very Impressive repair Robert, I do like pin cars.

                              We ran a Pin car event at Pendle track last year, featuring original 50's/60's cars, reproductions and modern interpretations of the theme, some of the lap times achieved were at least equal if not better than modern guide systems.

                              You deserve a banana.....




                              • Robert's Repair

                                That Should Run Fine. Nice fix!