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4TH RAAce, "The Coffin", Toronto, Ontario, Canada

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  • #46
    I don't mind taking an illegal magnet penality as long as I'm still in the game.
    Thank You
    Brent
    Visit my web site for your track timing options.

    Comment


    • #47
      Hey Kurt, was that Lola on a wood track? I may have to pull the mag outa mine?!

      I tend to look at the Mr. Bugs car differently than Bart. Bart got mixed up and put a mag in the wrong car, why did you put more than one mag in? If you understood the rules, this might be blatant cheating? Did you not see the one mag rule? No offense, Brent, just trying to understand.

      I am also very sorry to see Dr. Vanski go!

      Comment


      • #48
        Wait until you see the magnets Pete, they are very small so I figured if I glued 4 together it would be the same size or smaller than a Scaley bar magnet. They are not placed at different locations on the chassis and they are all flat and together.
        Oh well after Pete's e-mail I can see this has gotten out of hand, please put the car aside I do not want it to compete any further. I sort of thought this was all tongue in cheek but if one person thinks it is my attempt at cheating maybe more will to.
        Thank You
        Brent
        Visit my web site for your track timing options.

        Comment


        • #49
          Even to an onlooker, this is not good.

          My opinion:

          Why not assess a penalty on each of these guys like Bart got, and let them run? Replacing a gear is OK but replacing tires is not? What happens if someone using a silicon tire of some kind gets a chunk taken out of it in a crash? No replacing the tire? And what if a magnet cracks so that it's now two pieces - does this constitute two magnets, and therefore DQ or is replacing a cracke dmagnet cosidered repairs and therefore allowable

          How about just allowing these guys to fix their stuff or have it fixed by someone at the expense of one event - no score for the event immediately after the change - they can run for the fun but no points, then they're back in the race for the next event, much like someone who enters late.

          No rules = no fun
          Some rules = fun
          Lots of rules = less fun
          Too many rules = no fun

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by RECKLESSRACER
            THE GOOD NEWS ..... the B-52 Newman Porsche is NOT contacting the rails as previously purported.



            THE BAD NEWS ..... The "snapping" sound which I believed to be arcing noise, is actually the sound of the front end of the chassis flexing along a crack. The guide post support is also broken, a piece fell out when I took the body off. Unfortunately this car has taken a hard hit somewhere along the RAA sojourn.



            Nonetheless, the car still runs very well, turning respectable sub 7 second laps. The handling does not seem to be affected, guide is still turning smoothly. I will JB-Weld the crack and guide post, if requested by B-52.

            My sympathies to B-52!
            Dang!! My poor baby!! Hmmm...didn't I hear reports of Fred walking around the paddock late at night with a sledge hammer....I believe I did!!!

            Thanks for finding the problem Eric, and please go ahead and do whatever you can to fix it - can't let Paul run away with the "Challenge" (Dang DocV, we were just starting to close in on him).

            If Terry Noe and jagracer get their cars entered it looks like Wet has full responsibility for Canadian Pride in the "Challenge" - lot of pressure there Paul! .....in no particular order!

            Comment


            • #51
              No fun

              Originally posted by gascarnut
              Even to an onlooker, this is not good.

              My opinion:

              Why not assess a penalty on each of these guys like Bart got, and let them run? Replacing a gear is OK but replacing tires is not? What happens if someone using a silicon tire of some kind gets a chunk taken out of it in a crash? No replacing the tire? And what if a magnet cracks so that it's now two pieces - does this constitute two magnets, and therefore DQ or is replacing a cracke dmagnet cosidered repairs and therefore allowable

              How about just allowing these guys to fix their stuff or have it fixed by someone at the expense of one event - no score for the event immediately after the change - they can run for the fun but no points, then they're back in the race for the next event, much like someone who enters late.

              No rules = no fun
              Some rules = fun
              Lots of rules = less fun
              Too many rules = no fun
              Nicely put. I couldn't agree with you more.

              I appreciate the show of support. I could easily have changed my tires and not said a thing, but that is not my style. My Porsche is ready to race now, but Austin has ruled. I'd take a big hit to keep it in the race, but I won't burn out what is otherwise a perfectly good slot car. Thanks for the support, guys.

              The underwhelming DrVanski Racing M1 is raring to go for Sunday's contest. I will be obtaining a tach or some other diagnostic equipment prior to next year's race. My Magnet Marshal arrived a week after my cars were sent off to this year's race.

              Comment


              • #52
                The underwhelming DrVanski Racing M1 is raring to go for Sunday's contest. I will be obtaining a tach or some other diagnostic equipment prior to next year's race. My Magnet Marshal arrived a week after my cars were sent off to this year's race.
                I can imagine how annoyed you are. But then again, how many entrants had these technical resources from the beginning? Very few, I'm guessing. The Magnet Marshall only arrived at Robert's after he had track tested the majority of the field!

                Kurt's LMP 29k motor turned out to only be producing 23,162 rpm, I have no idea (and probably never will) what my GTS car is producing - though it could be more than his, ain't that ironic - and Brent probably went into this more ignorant than anybody. Hang on a minute, that didn't sound right ...

                There are a lot more participants in this RAAce than those of us who regularly jump into the discussions here. It's Austin's RAAce and Austin's call but I would sure enjoy hearing in this forum from some of the folks involved who usually just sit silently and observe, if only to gain some other perspectives.

                For myself, I would sure like to see a resolution from Austin that is aimed squarely at keeping as many of the original participants involved as possible - with whatever lap or points penalties may be appropriate for their necessary maintenance, and encompassing new entrants as we go along, as is already happening. But maybe others who haven't encountered any of these issues with their own cars would feel more fairly dealt with if the attrition was allowed to continue; we won't know unless they chime in, and sooner rather than later, eh?

                Comment


                • #53
                  opinion

                  I've been reading the posts, though not real carefully, so I'm not sure I know all of the elements at play.

                  Generally, I am very appreciative that Austin is clear about the rules and makes decisions based squarely upon those rules, rather than "fuzzy" interpretations.

                  I personally would not have thought that gluing magnets together was OK, but on the other hand I don't think Brent was trying to gain an unfair advantage by doing that. I do not think he was trying to cheat. I also would not have thought that replacing tires was OK. I chose Ortmanns for my GT car which does not appear to be the best choice, but I didn't ever think I could change tires - and, not being a race host, wouldn't have the opportunity anyway. Dr. Vanski, you say you could have "easily" changed your tires and not said a thing. I hope that isn't true. There is a bit of trust involved in the RAA, and I hope that others, like you, would be open about their actions. Obviously race hosts are in a unique position. I don't understand how a tire change affects the possibility of a motor burnout, but as I said, I really don't know all the elements involved.

                  Attrition seems to be a part of racing, yet in this series it doesn't seem necessary for folks to have to drop out. Seems to me that there are some strong immediate emotional reactions about feeling embarassed or something that lead to hasty decisions (e.g. to withdraw) that are not always the decision that would be made with a cooler head. But from what I've read in these posts, the participants all seem to be pretty accepting that people have different perspectives and thus different bases for judgments (opinions). I don't think anyone wants to see another participant leave in anger.

                  It would not distress me at all if Brent were allowed to change to a single magnet and received a penalty for having a magnet not within the rules. Again, I don't know what the motor burnout issues are (and don't have any personal experience with tires causing such a thing), but if Dr. Vanski's original tires are not damaged, then he could be allowed to remount them with no penalty (no harm, no foul). If the tires are defective, then maybe replace them with new tires of the same brand/type with the associated penalty. Changing to a different tire brand/type in order to make a faster car does not seem right given others do not have that opportunity (and I gather it is explicitly against the rules).

                  I'd like to see Brent's and Dr. Vanski's cars stay in the race.

                  Maybe "attrition" should be related to a cars ability to win the series. The best prepared cars in terms of speed, handling and endurance will challenge for the points title. Accidents, poor design choices and penalties may put a car out of the running in that respect, but should not put it out of the race. There is no obvious need for attrition in the sense of a car withdrawing completely. Most of us (including me) will win in a different way. It would be cool to have a top car, but just having cars in the races has been great. I hope everyone will stay in.

                  In regard to "latecoming," my GT car was in by the November deadline. I just didn't have time to put together an LMP car in time. So, it missed the first two races which probably amounts to a 50 point penalty. I know it is not in the running for the points championship, but that doesn't matter at all to me. It is a design experiment and I am enjoying seeing how it does in competition.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Maybe the rules for 2007 will allow one motor change due to failure (with penalty) and one change of rear tires due to failure (with penalty). This would keep participants in the race for the season and keep things interesting and fun.

                    The magnet breaking in two due to crash or mishandling (shipping) should be changed with the same size type magnet that was damaged w/o penalty. Hey I know penalize the driver who crashed the car which broke the mag. Maybe in 2007.

                    Sitting here rereading the first part of my reply now has me wondering. The exact way I wrote it and thought it should be leaves two big freaking loop holes. Can you see it? I don't like loop holes especially when it comes to interpreting rules for racing and would change the wording a bit to solve this problem.

                    btw, my non-tested, thrown together, 962 will be there in time for qualifying at the coffin. Don't let the shiny paint keep you from dropping the hammer. Remember I'm playing ketchup, catsup or is it catchup?

                    I'm tired, good night or good morning,
                    Terry

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Wetcoast and Racersolo, I agree with the sentiments of both your posts. I too would like to see both Dr. Vanski's and Mr. Bugs LMP cars stay in the running of the RAA, but perhaps out of the race for the podium. Much like the "real" Lemans, where a team may experience mechanical difficulties that make victory impossible, yet they go on to finish in order to learn from the experience, and still hopefully enjoy just being a part of it.

                      Both of these cars have a serious problem which procludes them from being competitive in terms of a podium finish. In Mr. Bugs case, the 4in1 magnet has a ridiculously low level of downforce [I believe 13 grams]. Dr. Vanski's Porsche has way too much downforce, and the motor is working against the magnet - resulting in serious overheating. The change of tires on his Porsche to a larger diameter size was a way to raise the magnet, and hence lessen the downforce to a level where burning out the motor is less likely.

                      It would be great to see a provision in the rules which would allow these cars to continue!

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        B-52 Lmp Update

                        The JB Weld experts were called in to the paddock last night ......



                        Well, maybe not expert, but I hope good enough! PS the guide still turns freely in the repaired mount.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Cheating??

                          Cheating?? No way -- I haven't seen anything that even remotely looks like cheating. I see, possibly, interpretations of the rules that are inappropriate, and nothing more than that. These interpretations should be corrected, the cars re-inspected, and the cars should be allowed to continue. In any real racing series, I don't think I've ever seen a rules violation that ended the team's season.

                          Brent's 4-mag car looks like nothing more than a rules violation, which is NOT the same as cheating. Cheating occurs when somebody commits a rules violation with the intent of gaining an unfair advantage. I doubt that any of us believes that Brent was trying to get an unfair advantage.

                          I just don't see withdrawal of these cars as an option. All that would serve to do is suck the fun right out of it.

                          How about a couple of quick and reasonable penalties so we can get back to the fun?

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            downforce

                            Did you know that you can reduce the power of a magnet with heat. I did some experimentation with this a while back and posted it (the post is currently in the Magnet Marshal section of this forum). You have to be careful not to apply too much heat, or apply it for too long. A BIC lighter for a few seconds is all you need. It has worked on every magnet I have tried.

                            Would this be a possibility for Dr. Vanski's car? I believe you have a travelling Magnet Marshal so you could reduce the downforce a little at a time to 50% or whatever seemed adequate to prevent motor burnout. I personally would like to see Dr. Vanski's car stay in the race. I guess you might consider this a major adjustment in a part and apply whatever penalty is appropriate. You wouldn't technically be replacing the part.

                            Or maybe this is going to far. As I said earlier I appreciate Austin's approach and I guess ultimately he will have to decide what can and cannot happen.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              The JB Weld experts were called in to the paddock last night ......
                              Hey, you could have a future with Wet Coast Engineering! Only we apply the stuff before anything breaks. And don't worry if you get a little on the axle bushings ...

                              I believe you have a travelling Magnet Marshal so you could reduce the downforce a little at a time to 50% or whatever seemed adequate to prevent motor burnout. I personally would like to see Dr. Vanski's car stay in the race. I guess you might consider this a major adjustment in a part and apply whatever penalty is appropriate.
                              Now, that sounds like an intelligent solution. Things just wouldn't be the same without the car that is so reminiscent of a Kenwood Porsche being in the mix!

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by gascarnut
                                Even to an onlooker, this is not good.

                                My opinion:

                                Why not assess a penalty on each of these guys like Bart got, and let them run? Replacing a gear is OK but replacing tires is not? What happens if someone using a silicon tire of some kind gets a chunk taken out of it in a crash? No replacing the tire? And what if a magnet cracks so that it's now two pieces - does this constitute two magnets, and therefore DQ or is replacing a cracke dmagnet cosidered repairs and therefore allowable

                                How about just allowing these guys to fix their stuff or have it fixed by someone at the expense of one event - no score for the event immediately after the change - they can run for the fun but no points, then they're back in the race for the next event, much like someone who enters late.
                                I'm with you 100% on this, except I think your proposal of a one-race forfeit is a bit draconian. *I* screwed up, with no more intent to cheat than Brent or Van, I got penalized 10 laps (or was it nine?), I fixed the problem, and I ran the next event. Certain elements were in favor of DQ'ing me outright (for abject stupidity, I guess), but Austin stepped in and made his ruling, which was more than fair.

                                I would have thought that, having established the precedent of assessing lap penalties for "violations," lap penalties would be the appropriate measure to deal with these situations.

                                Austin has a very hard job -- and like most of us, he has a REAL job that comes first. I'm sure no one, Austin included, wants to micro-manage every "out-of-spec" situation that comes up, but ruling on these situations has to be *somebody's* responsibility, and it seems to be Austin's. His absence from the forum for a few critical days left some people in limbo, and I think there was pressure to make immediate decisions and assess penalties. Some of these penalties seem, IMHO, unnecessarily peremptory and distressingly harsh.

                                I think the subject of penalties for mechanical woes needs to be explored and decided once and for all, because I greatly doubt the remaining 12 or 13 rounds are going to be free of similar problems.

                                Just my magnetic 2 cents

                                Bart

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